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UKIP are now a parliamentary party



C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Bold Seagull said:
They are political prostitutes - you can literally make UKIP into whatever you want them to be, and that is exactly what people are doing.

Half your posts appear well researched - but they only second guess on what a UKIP administration might do. Their politics are fluid, to suit the next headline or mood or fear they feel like exploiting. It's the politics of non-responsibility knowing that people aren't voting for a party they believe are going to be in power, they believe they are voting for a new ideology, a new politics - the genius of Farage is that he's hooking so many people in for so many different reasons. His challenge is keeping his representatives in check who can demonstrate just how far right, and back to the left their opinions can swing depending on what day you speak to them.

What we should start is a new thread where only UKIP supporters are allowed to post - no one else. It would be incredibly revealing just how wide spread the opinion on what they think UKIP are, what they represent, and what their policies actually are - it's already evident on this thread.
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Disappointed you only think “half” appear “well research” I will try harder.

Have to say I could not disagree more. I think UKIP have been far more stable in terms of their objectives than possibly any other political party in the UK in the last 20 years.

In this time Labour have deserted their core principles and the working class in their rush for the middle ground, and now they sway one way and another on all manner of different political matters, and most recently to counter UKIP. Take their view on immigration and the economy for example, does anyone actually know what they stand for? If Labour announced the re-nationalisation of the railways then I think with on stroke they would take the wind out of UKIP sails. They won’t do this though because (a) they know the EU would not let them under their competition rules, the same goes for the Royal Mail and (b) they don’t want to fight the EU.

The tories are the same, to the extent that they have treated their core support appallingly to appeal to labour voters, rushing the equality bill in without a by your leave in either the party or having it as a political objective in the manifesto is a classic example there regardless of whether you think it’s right. Accordingly, they are twisting themselves politically to support policies that are not orthodox tory policies. Its ironic when Schapps says vote UKIP get labour, because for many people in 2010 who voted tory they think they got labour. Lucky for them the economy is moving…………….it’s their only trump card.

I wont even bother with the libs.

I suspect most people who are prepared to vote UKIP do not think Farage is some political messiah, or that he has the answers. I think in comparison with the other party leaders however they respect that he sticks (and has stuck) by his political principles. The key to these principles is to regain the sovereignty that has been handed over to the EU by labour and the tories, and every EU murderer on the loose, terrorist not deported, shit lightbulb, underpowered vacuum cleaner and economic crisis in the Eurozone, is a recruiting sergeant for that cause.

To some extent UKIP is the SNP, it is anyone but Labour, Tory and Liberal. They sowed the wind…………..Farage is not as cute an operator as Salmond either, however luckily for him he is only batting against Miliband, Clegg and Cameron.
 




Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,842
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Buzzer said:
I think he's getting delusions of grandeur. This idea that UKIP is breaking the mould of party politics just isn't credible when the vast majority of the hierarchy are either political journeymen with years and years of having their snouts in the trough or they're chancers who see UKIP as a fast-track to the same troughs. If he stuck to the issue of Europe and a referendum and campaigned solely on this then I might just (maybe...) be persuaded to vote for him but UKIP with a policy on crime, on the NHS, on transport......not a chance.
Click to expand...

Different policies attract different people - if UKIP campaigned on their policies to introduce a flat rate tax, phasing out employers NI contributions, abolish inheritance tax, investment in HS1, 2 &3 as well as airport expansion and construction of a new Thames Estuary airport then a different set of voters would be attracted. Especially if they based their policy on Europe around a referendum rather than the definitive one to withdraw from Europe.
 










Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,789
Hove
cunning fergus said:
Disappointed you only think “half” appear “well research” I will try harder.

Have to say I could not disagree more. I think UKIP have been far more stable in terms of their objectives than possibly any other political party in the UK in the last 20 years.

In this time Labour have deserted their core principles and the working class in their rush for the middle ground, and now they sway one way and another on all manner of different political matters, and most recently to counter UKIP. Take their view on immigration and the economy for example, does anyone actually know what they stand for? If Labour announced the re-nationalisation of the railways then I think with on stroke they would take the wind out of UKIP sails. They won’t do this though because (a) they know the EU would not let them under their competition rules, the same goes for the Royal Mail and (b) they don’t want to fight the EU.

The tories are the same, to the extent that they have treated their core support appallingly to appeal to labour voters, rushing the equality bill in without a by your leave in either the party or having it as a political objective in the manifesto is a classic example there regardless of whether you think it’s right. Accordingly, they are twisting themselves politically to support policies that are not orthodox tory policies. Its ironic when Schapps says vote UKIP get labour, because for many people in 2010 who voted tory they think they got labour. Lucky for them the economy is moving…………….it’s their only trump card.

I wont even bother with the libs.

I suspect most people who are prepared to vote UKIP do not think Farage is some political messiah, or that he has the answers. I think in comparison with the other party leaders however they respect that he sticks (and has stuck) by his political principles. The key to these principles is to regain the sovereignty that has been handed over to the EU by labour and the tories, and every EU murderer on the loose, terrorist not deported, shit lightbulb, underpowered vacuum cleaner and economic crisis in the Eurozone, is a recruiting sergeant for that cause.

To some extent UKIP is the SNP, it is anyone but Labour, Tory and Liberal. They sowed the wind…………..Farage is not as cute an operator as Salmond either, however luckily for him he is only batting against Miliband, Clegg and Cameron.
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At least 67.5% well researched then! :lolol:

I think you're actually agreeing with the overall concept of what I'm saying to be honest, and what I then said to [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION], and the points he made too.

As an example from your reply, Labour, Tory's or Lib Dem's wouldn't be able to state they were renationalising the railways without a detailed plan of what that would mean and cost. UKIP can just say it, and at the same time they can also say they are cutting the size of government, cutting bureaucracy - how can you be renationalising and cutting the size of the state!? You don't need to answer that, because if you do, it will be you answering it and not UKIP - that is my point, UKIP don't appear to need to back anything as people don't appear to want to know.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Bold Seagull said:
They are political prostitutes - you can literally make UKIP into whatever you want them to be, and that is exactly what people are doing.

Half your posts appear well researched - but they only second guess on what a UKIP administration might do. Their politics are fluid, to suit the next headline or mood or fear they feel like exploiting. It's the politics of non-responsibility knowing that people aren't voting for a party they believe are going to be in power, they believe they are voting for a new ideology, a new politics - the genius of Farage is that he's hooking so many people in for so many different reasons. His challenge is keeping his representatives in check who can demonstrate just how far right, and back to the left their opinions can swing depending on what day you speak to them.

What we should start is a new thread where only UKIP supporters are allowed to post - no one else. It would be incredibly revealing just how wide spread the opinion on what they think UKIP are, what they represent, and what their policies actually are - it's already evident on this thread.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I have to answer because I am making a different point. You stated earlier how UKIP’s policies are fluid, whereas I think they have been stable. It’s the other parties who are shifting their policies and frankly their political rasion d’etre.

For example, Labour are the only political party that should be considering the re-nationalisation of the Railways because that would be consistent with their political ideology, hence they were against the privatisation of the Royal Mail. However they won’t even consider re-nationalisation it because it pushes up against their commitment to the EU. This is purely indicative of how far they have moved ideologically.

Ironically UKIP could genuinely offer renationalisation of the railways etc. if they wanted to because politically they are prepared to stick two fingers up to the EU and their competition laws.

The point about the railways is irrelevant really, it could be about borders, migration, light bulbs or vacuum cleaners. It is merely an example of how far Labour has departed from their political birthplace in order to embrace internationalism courtesy of the EU. Many thousands of ordinary working class people understand it…………….and that Miliband has nothing to offer them because he doesn’t want to.

The same point can equally be made about the Tories by the way.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Plooks said:
Again, I don't want words and sales pitched I want to see the data and predictions and comparisons with alternative policies. Without that I just has out people saying leaving is better and in people saying staying is better. Without hard data it is just meaningless hearsay and guessing.
So far I am far from convinced.
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Fair enough, but you know plenty of people came up with data and predictions about how joining the euro would be a good idea for the UK, many on here I suspect would still like us to even though it has been proved to be a catastrophe, which has not ended yet.

In fact resolution will only come around if all the EZ states submit to a single treasury policy and surrender their sovereignty completely.........something that will mean those outside the EZ will need to deal with as the EZ states priorities may not be consistent with those not in the EZ. No data exists on this by the way........it is the future.

As is say Turkey joining the EU. Now Ed Miliband and his team are actively working hard as we speak to get them in to the EU..........not that I have heard that policy from him, must have been something else he forgot at the conference.

http://ceftus.org/2012/07/04/message-from-ed-miliband/

Anyway, no data exists on this either..............so after all your questions, how about one for you.

Do you think it would be good thing or a bad thing if Turkey joined the EU.............and why?
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,789
Hove
cunning fergus said:
Sorry, I have to answer because I am making a different point. You stated earlier how UKIP’s policies are fluid, whereas I think they have been stable. It’s the other parties who are shifting their policies and frankly their political rasion d’etre.

For example, Labour are the only political party that should be considering the re-nationalisation of the Railways because that would be consistent with their political ideology, hence they were against the privatisation of the Royal Mail. However they won’t even consider re-nationalisation it because it pushes up against their commitment to the EU. This is purely indicative of how far they have moved ideologically.

Ironically UKIP could genuinely offer renationalisation of the railways etc. if they wanted to because politically they are prepared to stick two fingers up to the EU and their competition laws.

The point about the railways is irrelevant really, it could be about borders, migration, light bulbs or vacuum cleaners. It is merely an example of how far Labour has departed from their political birthplace in order to embrace internationalism courtesy of the EU. Many thousands of ordinary working class people understand it…………….and that Miliband has nothing to offer them because he doesn’t want to.

The same point can equally be made about the Tories by the way.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't have been easier to have stated UKIP's stable policies rather than go into a long post about Labour and the EU? You've mentioned light bulbs so many times now I'm struggling to take you seriously even though I really have tried.
 
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S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Bold Seagull said:
Wouldn't have been easier to have stated UKIP's stable policies rather than go into a long post about Labour and the EU? You've mentioned light bulbs so many times now I'm struggling to take you seriously even though I really have tried.
Click to expand...

Perhaps Cunning has a different opinion to you, UKIP were not taken "seriously" were they, unfortunately those that are losing votes are getting a bit rattled.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,187
Surrey
Forage getting slaughtered on panorama. Sixth worst attendance of.all MEPs, whinging about the feeble UK fishing quota, but being on the fisheries commission and NEVER turning up, UKIP taking €70m of tax payers money.

What a fcking FRAUD.
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Bold Seagull said:
Wouldn't have been easier to have stated UKIP's stable policies rather than go into a long post about Labour and the EU? You've mentioned light bulbs so many times now I'm struggling to take you seriously even though I really have tried.
Click to expand...


Well, I did say earlier that they were stable, you said they were fluid. I was using Labour policy as a benchmark, y'know like how they are now going to be tough on immigration to the UK but are working tirelessly to get Turkey into the EU. I'm sure that will work.

As for the light bulbs, I will replace this with banning barometers if that livens it up, there is so much madness from our unelected masters to choose from isn't there?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics.../cameron-dig-brussels-diabetes-discriminatory

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...claim-that-water-can-prevent-dehydration.html

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994R2257:20060217:EN:PDF
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,963
Living In a Box
Watch Panorama on now, shows what a to$$er Farage is.
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,892
Simster said:
Forage getting slaughtered on panorama. Sixth worst attendance of.all MEPs, whinging about the feeble UK fishing quota, but being on the fisheries commission and NEVER turning up, UKIP taking €70m of tax payers money.

What a fcking FRAUD.
Click to expand...

He never misses out on claiming his wages and expenses from a parliament he claims to despise.
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Plooks said:
I honestly do not know.
My gut feeling is that things could be better if the whole of Europe worked together and had Europe wide policies and laws. Like maybe benefits being paid for from a central pot and not individual governments. But I suppose that is essentially having a United States of Europe instead of individual countries. Would this be good or bad? I am not sure. Again, my gut feeling is it would be very good in some aspects and worse in others.
So you could say I am the very definition of undecided even though my instinct would be for some sort of unified Europe single country as I have no idea if that is good or not. I have more questions than answers.
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Fair enough, so maybe have a think of these questions..........

When the poor Eastern European countries like Poland joined the EU who did this benefit in the UK the most......rich people or poor people? You may recall at that time the electorate were told that all the data and records indicated only 13,000 Poles would arrive.

Was the decision to let Poland into the EU endorsed by the democratic will of the EU electorate and the British electorate?

Given Miliband is working tirelessly to get a Turkey into the EU do you think we (or the EU electorate) will be consulted on whether Turkey should join?

I think you know the answers......
 


El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,705
Pattknull med Haksprut
cunning fergus said:
Fair enough, so maybe have a think of these questions..........

When the poor Eastern European countries like Poland joined the EU who did this benefit in the UK the most......rich people or poor people?......
Click to expand...

I'd say anyone who wanted some work done on their house on time, at a fair price and by someone who is competent and takes pride in their work. I know there are good British tradesmen ( such as our [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION]), but there are too many rip off merchants.

If people want protectionism by voting UKIP then fine, but accept the economic consequences that come with it.
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,963
Living In a Box
If anyone seriously thinks UKIP and Farage are electable after the stunning double standards on Panorama tonight then they are seriously deluded and wasting a vote.
 


P

portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,606
portslade
Simster said:
Forage getting slaughtered on panorama. Sixth worst attendance of.all MEPs, whinging about the feeble UK fishing quota, but being on the fisheries commission and NEVER turning up, UKIP taking €70m of tax payers money.

What a fcking FRAUD.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah and the rest of them are innocent bystanders I very much doubt it all as bad as each other
 








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