[Football] Keep winning or look for the easier knockout games?

Bold Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Trying to lose? No one is suggesting kicking the ball in our own net. But we could rest several players. Don't tell me know one wins a world cup by resting players?

That's like suggesting there's no such thing as an easy or tough route, which you know is wrong. And if that's not what you mean, what do you mean? I'd rather play a Brazil, Germany or Spain in the final, than play one in the quarter final, and still have the other two to come should we win.

How about if you're drawing the game, and you get a deliberate yellow to finish second in the group? You don't lose any belief.

When a big game is around the corner, all the top clubs in Premier League football rest players for a crappy game in the League Cup so that they have a stronger team available for the competitions that matter. Hell we even do it. But you're saying they've all got it wrong, they might as well pack their bags and go home.

You rest players because you want to get everyone in the squad involved as they might be needed. You don't rest players because you quite fancy getting beat to finish 2nd.

Of course there are different routes, tougher or easier, but you don't engineer that route yourself, you play the hand your dealt trying to win each game and improving with each game. If that means playing a final group game with squad players who haven't played that, that isn't trying to lose it, that is seeing what you have and you will want those players to give 100% to win that game.

Whoever gets a deliberate yellow could face suspension later in the tournament, I'd probably stop watching if a flurry of England and Belgium players suddenly start getting bookings for descent in the last 10 mins. Let's just hope such a travesty wouldn't happen and sully what is left of the reputation of English football.

Premier League sides still want to win their cup games, they are paying a 25 man squad healthy salaries, so it is always an opportunity to rest players, they are still trying to win though. Totally at odds with what you're suggesting.

The world cup winners have come from a group stage winner in each of the last 8 world cups. It didn't happen in '82 but that was a double group into semis format. They didn't pick, choose or engineer who they wanted to play, they just won.

I'm not against picking a changed side, but I'd still send that side out to win the game. There is a difference.

Jim D · Jun 25, 2018

Apart from Spain in 2010, I can't remember any WC winning team that lost a match. Many drew one (England in 1966) but 'losing to progress' is a dangerous ploy. Also, if you deliberately try to get a yellow you might get the player a ban for cheating. Best to play to win and take our chances.

Stephen Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

If we get through to the Semi-final I'm going to be in deep s**t. It's my 10th wedding anniversary on 11th July, so if we do finish 2nd our semi-final will be on that night.

Go for the win, then I can watch the semi-final the day before!

Simster · Jun 25, 2018

On the basis that so many teams have blown hot and cold in this tournament, I'd say just keep on trying to win. Germany for 135 minutes have been very beatable, but for 45 minutes not so much. Which Colombia is going to turn up in the next round? Same goes for Portugal. Even France; they've got the job done twice but really haven't pulled up any trees.

Regardless, does it matter if we go out in the next round or the semi? Not really - the fact is that you have to beat everyone standing in your way if you want to progress. With that said, a semi-competitive match against a decent side on Thursday suits both Belgium and England. No need for it to be too hard, sub best players and players on cards well before the end of the game, try to win but no big deal if you don't. That sort of thing.

Is it PotG? · Jun 25, 2018

I think we can see the Belgium viewpoint. I know we'll have ours.

Bold Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Is it PotG? said:
I think we can see the Belgium viewpoint. I know we'll have ours.

I hope we do use our squad accordingly. It is the last group game in which we know we've qualified. There is a world of difference to that and engineering a performance to ensure 2nd place.

Jim D · Jun 25, 2018

Triggaaar said:
If they decide to rest their best players, they won't even count as a proper team.

Apart from worrying about the quarter final though, it does seem that it would be worth avoiding Colombia too, and we won't know the outcome of that group until a couple of hours before our game.

Columbia must beat Senegal to even qualify and if Japan win they can't be group winners. We won't know the final position until just before we play so there's no way that Southgate will finalise the strategy so close to our game. He'll put out a team to win.

Bold Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Stephen Seagull said:
If we get through to the Semi-final I'm going to be in deep s**t. It's my 10th wedding anniversary on 11th July, so if we do finish 2nd our semi-final will be on that night.

Go for the win, then I can watch the semi-final the day before!

What on earth are you doing making a big deal of wedding anniversaries after you get to 10!? It will be our 15th on exactly the same day - I hadn't given it a thought until your post! :wink:

cuthbert · Jun 25, 2018

Jim D said:
Apart from Spain in 2010, I can't remember any WC winning team that lost a match. Many drew one (England in 1966) but 'losing to progress' is a dangerous ploy. Also, if you deliberately try to get a yellow you might get the player a ban for cheating. Best to play to win and take our chances.

Did W Germany lose to E Germany in 1974?

Napper · Jun 25, 2018

2nd in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get Spain in Semis

1st in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get France or Portugal in Semi

As it stands , should look to win the group.

From what we've seen , I'd prefer to avoid the Spain route if we are talking about plotting are way through

FatSuperman · Jun 25, 2018

Iggle Piggle said:
1. Goal difference
2. Scored
3 fair play.

This is the official word on tie breakers:
1. Goal difference
2. Goals scored
3. Head-to-head points
4. Head-to-head goal difference
5. Head-to-head goals scored
6. Fair play points
7. Drawing of lots

Fair play points:
Yellow card: -1
Red card for two cautions: -3
Straight red card: -4
Yellow card and straight red card: -5

Stephen Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Bold Seagull said:
What on earth are you doing making a big deal of wedding anniversaries after you get to 10!? It will be our 15th on exactly the same day - I hadn't given it a thought until your post!

Congratulations!

I hadn't planned on England getting past the QF

Who would get married in July?

Stephen Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

FatSuperman said:
This is the official word on tie breakers:
1. Goal difference
2. Goals scored
3. Head-to-head points
4. Head-to-head goal difference
5. Head-to-head goals scored
6. Fair play points
7. Drawing of lots

Fair play points:
Yellow card: -1
Red card for two cautions: -3
Straight red card: -4
Yellow card and straight red card: -5

I thought it was FIFA Ranking before tossing a coin

Bold Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Stephen Seagull said:
Congratulations!

I hadn't planned on England getting past the QF

Who would get married in July?

Not been a problem for the previous world cups or euros over the past 15 years to be fair!

hart's shirt · Jun 25, 2018

It's all set up for Sterling to score an injury-time winner.

Triggaaar · Jun 25, 2018

Napper said:
Brazil look pretty pony to me.

They're favourites to win it.

Pantani · Jun 25, 2018

Stephen Seagull said:
If we get through to the Semi-final I'm going to be in deep s**t. It's my 10th wedding anniversary on 11th July, so if we do finish 2nd our semi-final will be on that night.

Go for the win, then I can watch the semi-final the day before!

Surely your wife is grown up enough to realise that a World Cup semi final is a pretty rare thing? If not you need to take the day off from work and take her out for lunch. Really not that difficult, I would have thought?

Stephen Seagull · Jun 25, 2018

Pantani said:
Surely your wife is grown up enough to realise that a World Cup semi final is a pretty rare thing? If not you need to take the day off from work and take her out for lunch. Really not that difficult, I would have thought?

The problem is we've already booked a table somewhere. If they're showing the game then I will sit strategically in front of the screen and not speak for 2 hours

Triggaaar · Jun 25, 2018

Napper said:
2nd in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get Spain in Semis
1st in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get France or Portugal in Semi

That's ridiculous. Before we play we'll know which route would avoid Germany or Brazil. And Spain could also finish behind Portugal, and end up in the other semi-final, after we've played Brazil.

From what we've seen , I'd prefer to avoid the Spain route if we are talking about plotting are way through

I'd prefer to get the the semi-final before worrying who that's against.

Jim D · Jun 25, 2018

Napper said:
2nd in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get Spain in Semis

1st in group , possibly avoid Brazil and Germany but likely to get France or Portugal in Semi

As it stands , should look to win the group.

From what we've seen , I'd prefer to avoid the Spain route if we are talking about plotting are way through

Finishing 1st will almost certainly get us a QF with Brazil or Germany, and possibly a last 16 game with Columbia.

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[Football] Keep winning or look for the easier knockout games?

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