* Official Friday Tory Bashing Thread *

Buzzer · Apr 10, 2016

Buzzer said:
...But no it isn't too far to say that Labour have problems here. .... and they have had reported dozens of party members recently for online comments.

Another day another Labour councillor suspended for anti-semitic remarks, this time for saying Hitler was the greatest and Israel should be wiped off the map. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36009544

Now Sadiq Khan has stepped in and said the leadership needs to take a tougher stance and that it should be a badge of shame in the party. Corbyn has of course condemned it and said that if reported it will get acted upon but I cam't help but feel Khan is right. It really SHOULD be a badge of shame. It doesn't appear to be being regarded at the very top as big an issue as many in the party and the wider Jewish community regard it.

JC Footy Genius · Apr 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
Another day another Labour councillor suspended for anti-semitic remarks, this time for saying Hitler was the greatest and Israel should be wiped off the map. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36009544

Now Sadiq Khan has stepped in and said the leadership needs to take a tougher stance and that it should be a badge of shame in the party. Corbyn has of course condemned it and said that if reported it will get acted upon but I cam't help but feel Khan is right. It really SHOULD be a badge of shame. It doesn't appear to be being regarded at the very top as big an issue as many in the party and the wider Jewish community regard it.

Another day and a Labour MP Naz Shah is suspended (eventually).

Shah, who was elected MP for Bradford West last May Shared a picture of Israel’s outline superimposed on to a map of the US under the headline “Solution for Israel-Palestine Conflict – Relocate Israel into United States”, with the comment “problem solved”.

In the post shared in 2014 – nine months before Shah became an MP – it went on to say that Americans would “welcome Israelis with open arms” and that the relocation would bring peace to the Middle East by ending “foreign interference”.

The post suggested the US had “plenty of land” to accommodate Israel as a 51st state, allowing Palestinians to “get their life and their land back”.

Alongside the post, Shah added a smiley-face emoji and suggested she would lobby the prime minister to adopt the plan.

It added that Israeli people would be welcome and safe in the US, while the “transportation cost” would be less than three years’ worth of Washington’s support for Israeli defence spending.

Shah added a note suggesting the plan might “save them some pocket money”.

After the posting was highlighted by the Guido Fawkes website, Shah released a statement in which she said: “This post from two years ago was made before I was an MP, does not reflect my views and I apologise for any offence it has caused.”

Shah is a member of the House of Commons home affairs select committee, which is conducting an inquiry into the rise of antisemitism.

glasfryn · Apr 27, 2016

she should and probably will be thrown out of the party
all racists should be thrown out of politics
tories won't have time though to busy shafting the poor

Ernest · Apr 27, 2016

glasfryn said:
she should and probably will be thrown out of the party
all racists should be thrown out of politics
tories won't have time though to busy shafting the poor

I hope the Tories will be as vigilant on their own side in getting rid of those with unacceptable views

Hampster Gull · Apr 27, 2016

Surely Corbyn has to go. His party is rocking yet again, not due to lack of competency this time but through nasty racist comments and lack to leadership. The hard left are ruining a once ok party

crookie · Apr 27, 2016

Hampster Gull said:
Surely Corbyn has to go. His party is rocking yet again, not due to lack of competency this time but through nasty racist comments and lack to leadership. The hard left are ruining a once ok party

Corbyn is pro-palestinian though as well, so awkwardly for him he probably sympathises with these odious opinions. As more and more Muslim immigration comes into this country expect more of the same. The Jewish population of this country is only 300000 or so I believe. I would be worried if I was one of them

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beorhthelm · Apr 27, 2016

i continue to be perplexed how favouring one semitic group other another semitic group makes you anti-semitic. we should call it anti-jewish.

as for the content of the idea, i wonder how people would react if it was different groups involved. on both sides of the political spectrum there are those that suggest it for other peoples.

Raleigh Chopper · Apr 27, 2016

Ernest said:
I hope the Tories will be as vigilant on their own side in getting rid of those with unacceptable views

Too busy having their moats cleaned to form an unacceptable view, except down the golf club after too many gin & tonics.

JC Footy Genius · Apr 27, 2016

Ernest said:
I hope the Tories will be as vigilant on their own side in getting rid of those with unacceptable views

But Labour weren't vigilant It was a blogger who highlighted these views and she wasn't got rid of, Corbyn gave her a reprimand. Only after further pressure including from Cameron at PMQ's did he decide to suspend her.

Of course it would be hard for him to act as he has shared platforms with groups who have rabid anti jewish views and called them friends. Perhaps he should suspend himself. This is what happens when a party's membership lets the extreme fringe takeover and they welcome in all the usual suspects.

Castello · Apr 27, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
Another day and a Labour MP Naz Shah is suspended (eventually).

Shah, who was elected MP for Bradford West last May Shared a picture of Israel’s outline superimposed on to a map of the US under the headline “Solution for Israel-Palestine Conflict – Relocate Israel into United States”, with the comment “problem solved”.

In the post shared in 2014 – nine months before Shah became an MP – it went on to say that Americans would “welcome Israelis with open arms” and that the relocation would bring peace to the Middle East by ending “foreign interference”.

The post suggested the US had “plenty of land” to accommodate Israel as a 51st state, allowing Palestinians to “get their life and their land back”.

Alongside the post, Shah added a smiley-face emoji and suggested she would lobby the prime minister to adopt the plan.

It added that Israeli people would be welcome and safe in the US, while the “transportation cost” would be less than three years’ worth of Washington’s support for Israeli defence spending.

Shah added a note suggesting the plan might “save them some pocket money”.

After the posting was highlighted by the Guido Fawkes website, Shah released a statement in which she said: “This post from two years ago was made before I was an MP, does not reflect my views and I apologise for any offence it has caused.”

Shah is a member of the House of Commons home affairs select committee, which is conducting an inquiry into the rise of antisemitism.

Might I ask if you feel what she said was anti semitic and why do you feel that?

JC Footy Genius · Apr 27, 2016

Castello said:
Might I ask if you feel what she said was anti semitic and why do you feel that?

If we agree the recognised definition of anti semitism is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as an ethnic, religious, or racial group. Then I would say supporting the (forced?) relocation of all the Jews in Israel to the US could be considered a bit prejudiced and using the term 'solution' is insensitive to say the least.

Castello · Apr 27, 2016

beorhthelm said:
i continue to be perplexed how favouring one semitic group other another semitic group makes you anti-semitic. we should call it anti-jewish.

Technically you are right, and I have also wondered why the term anti semitism is used when people mean anti jewish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

However in practical terms it has come to mean the same thing, and therefore people do see it in its current usage.

glasfryn · Apr 27, 2016

ernest said:
i hope the tories will be as vigilant on their own side in getting rid of those with unacceptable views

you mean all of them
ernest

Castello · Apr 27, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
If we agree the recognised definition of anti semitism is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as an ethnic, religious, or racial group. Then I would say supporting the (forced?) relocation of all the Jews in Israel to the US could be considered a bit prejudiced and using the term 'solution' is insensitive to say the least.

ok let me make something clear to start with. I disagree with what she said. I believe the practical act of what she proposes would mean the forced relocation of people. This would in any terms be an attrocity. I believe the forced reloction of anyone whether they be israeli or palestinian is wrong.

However I do not believe that she is being anti semitic. for her to have been anti semitic she would have to have called only for jewish israelis to be forcibly moved. There are christian and muslim israelis and indeed israelis of no faith or other faiths. What she is calling for is for the forced movements of israelis that believe in a Zionist state. Whilst Zionism is the support of a creation of a jewish state. not all Zionists are jewish and not all jews are Zionists.

There is an increasing attempt to conflate the word zionist with jewish, and whilst I would accept some on the left are using zionism to hide their anti semitism, there are many zionists using the same tactics to deflect from the actions of israel. This is using anti semitism to hide behind, and for me as a jew extremely problematic, as it confuses the real issues at stake.

If people feel she should be sanctioned for being against israel or for calling for the forced relocation of people let them say that, but dont put words in her mouth and then find her guilty of what she didnt say.

Ernest · Apr 27, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
This is what happens when a party's membership lets the extreme fringe takeover and they welcome in all the usual suspects.

Describes the Tories perfectly

Castello · Apr 28, 2016

crookie said:
Corbyn is pro-palestinian though as well, so awkwardly for him he probably sympathises with these odious opinions. As more and more Muslim immigration comes into this country expect more of the same. The Jewish population of this country is only 300000 or so I believe. I would be worried if I was one of them

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

I think it would be fair to say that I am pro palestinian in the same way that you attribute to to Corbyn. I dont agree with her views. why do you assume Corbyn does. I am also one of the 300,000 jews you talk about living in this country. I know many jews, some I am related to some I am friends with some I just know. I have spoken to most of them about Muslims. A very small percentage feel any fear of Muslims coming to this country. A very large percentage feel quite comfortable with their arrival, understanding the pressures that make people emigrate to a new country.

Now it may be the quality of jew I mix with, but I notice that they dont all share the same ideas and beliefs on any subject. There may be trends towards one idea or belief. but fear of the arrival of muslims isnt one of them. You however I'm not so sure about.

JC Footy Genius · Apr 28, 2016

Castello said:
ok let me make something clear to start with. I disagree with what she said. I believe the practical act of what she proposes would mean the forced relocation of people. This would in any terms be an attrocity. I believe the forced reloction of anyone whether they be israeli or palestinian is wrong.

However I do not believe that she is being anti semitic. for her to have been anti semitic she would have to have called only for jewish israelis to be forcibly moved. There are christian and muslim israelis and indeed israelis of no faith or other faiths. What she is calling for is for the forced movements of israelis that believe in a Zionist state. Whilst Zionism is the support of a creation of a jewish state. not all Zionists are jewish and not all jews are Zionists.

There is an increasing attempt to conflate the word zionist with jewish, and whilst I would accept some on the left are using zionism to hide their anti semitism, there are many zionists using the same tactics to deflect from the actions of israel. This is using anti semitism to hide behind, and for me as a jew extremely problematic, as it confuses the real issues at stake.

If people feel she should be sanctioned for being against israel or for calling for the forced relocation of people let them say that, but dont put words in her mouth and then find her guilty of what she didnt say.

I think you're being unnecessarily kind and including caveats and nuance where none exists. Or putting words into her mouth. If a person appears to support Israel being forcibly relocated to the US I think we know she isn't talking about Israeli Muslims or Christians.

Apparently the term anti semitic was included in one draft of her apology before being changed.

http://news.sky.com/story/1686206/naz-shah-suspended-over-anti-semitic-comments

JC Footy Genius · Apr 28, 2016

Ernest said:
Describes the Tories perfectly

Much easier to have predictable digs at the Tories rather than face up to the serious problems within the Labour party.

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