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Gorgeous George's Autumn Statement



Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,633
The Fatherland
Bozza said:
The dark side of Germany's jobs miracle - some highlights below...

Anja has been scrubbing floors and washing dishes for two euros an hour over the past six years. She is bewildered when she sees newspapers hailing Germany's "job miracle."

"My company exploited me," says the 50-year-old, sitting in the kitchen of her small flat in the eastern German town of Stralsund. "If I could find something else, I'd be long gone.
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But critics say the reforms that helped create jobs also broadened and entrenched the low-paid and temporary work sector, boosting wage inequality.

Labor office data show the low wage sector grew three times as fast as other employment in the five years to 2010, explaining why the "job miracle" has not prompted Germans to spend much more than they have in the past.
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"I've had some people earning as little as 55 cents per hour," said Peter Huefken, the head of Stralsund's job agency, the first of its kind to sue employers for paying too little. He is encouraging other agencies to follow suit.

Data from the European Statistics Office suggests people in work in Germany are slightly less prone to poverty than their peers in the euro zone, but the risk has risen: 7.2 percent of workers were earning so little they were likely to experience poverty in 2010, versus 4.8 percent in 2005.
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Job growth in Germany has been especially strong for low wage and temporary agency employment because of deregulation and the promotion of flexible, low-income, state-subsidised so-called "mini-jobs."

The number of full-time workers on low wages - sometimes defined as less than two thirds of middle income - rose by 13.5 percent to 4.3 million between 2005 and 2010, three times faster than other employment, according to the Labour Office.
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Critics say Germany's reforms came at a high price as they firmly entrenched the low-wage sector and depressed wages, leading to a two-tier labor market.

New categories of low-income, government-subsidized jobs - a concept being considered in Spain - have proven especially problematic. Some economists say they have backfired.

They were created to help those with bad job prospects eventually become reintegrated into the regular labor market, but surveys show that for most people, they lead nowhere.
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This article is almost 3 years old. As previously mentioned a minimum wage of €8.50 comes into effect in 4 weeks time which will address this.
 




glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
Lord Bracknell said:
I'm saying that the Tory strategists (who seem to be led by "Gorgeous George") haven't got a clue how to win the election, but naively imagine that the sort of measures announced today might help.

They need to get out more.
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or they know full well they won't win it outright ........so can promise the world to those who believe it
we were supposed to be having a vote on Europe this time .......have we had it or have I fallen asleep at the sound of them droning on about it
 


Uncle Spielberg

Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
42,819
Lancing




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,770
Back in Sussex
Herr Tubthumper said:
This article is almost 3 years old. As previously mentioned a minimum wage of €8.50 comes into effect in 4 weeks time which will address this.
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It shows how long Germany has been utilising these low wages that you find so abhorrent then, doesn't it?

I was responding to your "I am not aware of this, and to be honest do not believe it." which was before you made any mention of a minimum wage. That there Google thing throws up a whole heap of articles, some from inside Germany, which are most damning on the implementation and subsequent results of these ultra-low wages in the place you call home.

As someone who is frequently so damning about the setup in the UK, I'm surprised you are trying to just ignore this, although it's quite clear you actually knew nothing about it.
 








Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
Lord Bracknell said:
I'm saying that the Tory strategists (who seem to be led by "Gorgeous George") haven't got a clue how to win the election, but naively imagine that the sort of measures announced today might help.
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Nah. What you're really saying, is regardless what they have done, you disagree and think it's bad, because of your political persuasion.
 






Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
Bozza said:
The dark side of Germany's jobs miracle - some highlights below...

Anja has been scrubbing floors and washing dishes for two euros an hour over the past six years. She is bewildered when she sees newspapers hailing Germany's "job miracle."

...

critics say the reforms that helped create jobs also broadened and entrenched the low-paid and temporary work sector, boosting wage inequality.
Click to expand...

There are huge numbers of low-paid and part-time workers in the UK who only survive by combining pay for employment with benefits that top up their low pay. If anyone imagines that the "jobs" that they do are capable of being seen as real jobs that can exist without the supplementary payments made by the benefit system, then they haven't been paying attention.

The real beneficiaries of this system are, of course, the employers who can get away with paying peanuts, in the certain knowledge that the benefit system will see their employees ok.

I have no idea how the government can claim that an economy based upon an increasing number of jobs like this is flourishing, or that the jobs are "real".
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
Lord Bracknell said:
There are huge numbers of low-paid and part-time workers in the UK who only survive by combining pay for employment with benefits that top up their low pay. If anyone imagines that the "jobs" that they do are capable of being seen as real jobs that can exist without the supplementary payments made by the benefit system, then they haven't been paying attention.

The real beneficiaries of this system are, of course, the employers who can get away with paying peanuts, in the certain knowledge that the benefit system will see their employees ok.

I have no idea how the government can claim that an economy based upon an increasing number of jobs like this is flourishing, or that the jobs are "real".
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Very true which is why his figures are all over the place, there are no tax income from these jobs so this is why he needs to keep borrowing
 




Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
Herr Tubthumper said:
This article is almost 3 years old. As previously mentioned a minimum wage of €8.50 comes into effect in 4 weeks time which will address this.
Click to expand...

Not quite address everything, my friend. Long-term unemployed will not be entitled to it for the first 6 months of employment, there's special rules for seasonal workers and internships are exempt. I was reading the other week that trade unions in Germany are very unhappy about the loopholes because something like half of all agricultural workers and a third of hospitality workers earn less than the proposed minimum. These loopholes were added to protect those businesses who would see massive hikes in paying their employees a living wage.

I did read a defence from one of Merkel's cabinet about the long-term unemployed exemption that ran along the lines of acting as an incentive for businesses to employ the long-term unemployed but it just came across as another chance to exploit poor workers.
 


F

Frampler

New member
Aug 25, 2011
239
Eastbourne
BlockDpete said:
Surprised no one has picked up on this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-30316577

Improvements to Gatwick Airport Station, and a study into improvement to the Brighton Mainline.
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That Gatwick station looks so different, I'm struggling to work out how it aligns with the current station.

Good news on the Brighton mainline - it has been noticeably worse this year, and is bound to get even more crowded. However, it's hard to see what the Government can do to increase capacity and train frequency without leveling a substantial amount of property and building new tunnels. This would probably cost billions.
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,770
Back in Sussex
Lord Bracknell said:
There are huge numbers of low-paid and part-time workers in the UK who only survive by combining pay for employment with benefits that top up their low pay. If anyone imagines that the "jobs" that they do are capable of being seen as real jobs that can exist without the supplementary payments made by the benefit system, then they haven't been paying attention.

The real beneficiaries of this system are, of course, the employers who can get away with paying peanuts, in the certain knowledge that the benefit system will see their employees ok.

I have no idea how the government can claim that an economy based upon an increasing number of jobs like this is flourishing, or that the jobs are "real".
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I've not suggested otherwise. I was merely highlighting to [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] that his version of Germany is all a bit Jackanory and some of the criticisms he levels at the UK are just as valid in Germany, although he seems to become a bit ostrich-like when it's pointed out to him.
 






glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
Lord Bracknell said:
There are huge numbers of low-paid and part-time workers in the UK who only survive by combining pay for employment with benefits that top up their low pay. If anyone imagines that the "jobs" that they do are capable of being seen as real jobs that can exist without the supplementary payments made by the benefit system, then they haven't been paying attention.

The real beneficiaries of this system are, of course, the employers who can get away with paying peanuts, in the certain knowledge that the benefit system will see their employees ok.

I have no idea how the government can claim that an economy based upon an increasing number of jobs like this is flourishing, or that the jobs are "real".
Click to expand...

LB
thats my daughter you are talking about
working small hours each day being paid for 2/3 days at minimum wage, training with some numpty at the job centre, thats to find a job.
not a real job, she had a real job but was replaced by someone who would take less pay.
God I could go on for ages about how she has been treated, but at last she is becoming her fathers daughter and questioning things and not more than a few weeks ago had a stand up row with the job centre manager, but by arguing got what she was entitled to.
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,770
Back in Sussex
Buzzer said:
Not quite address everything, my friend. Long-term unemployed will not be entitled to it for the first 6 months of employment, there's special rules for seasonal workers and internships are exempt. I was reading the other week that trade unions in Germany are very unhappy about the loopholes because something like half of all agricultural workers and a third of hospitality workers earn less than the proposed minimum. These loopholes were added to protect those businesses who would see massive hikes in paying their employees a living wage.

I did read a defence from one of Merkel's cabinet about the long-term unemployed exemption that ran along the lines of acting as an incentive for businesses to employ the long-term unemployed but it just came across as another chance to exploit poor workers.
Click to expand...

...and many business sectors have a 2 year exemption during which they can carry on exploiting.

The IMF's most recent report on the German economy suggests that in areas of the country where unemployment is above average, the national minimum wage may further dampen the labour market, further increasing unemployment.
 


tinycowboy

tinycowboy

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2008
4,002
Canterbury
I'm sure this has already been posted - if I mention it, it always has, make no mistake - but people who are entrenched in their affiliation to a particular party should try this and see if it confirms that belief or gives you a surprise. The party that so far has the most popular policies in the country overall is fairly surprising...

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/
 








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