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Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

darkwolf666 said:
OMG - I take it this is a joke, right? If not please crawl back to the era of Love Thy Neighbour that you clearly belong to.

Why? I'm not racist, have black friends and friends from other country's, the point t I'm making is words are just words and those that get offended by them want to be offended by something. Racism isn't that bad a thing.

darkwolf666 · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Why? I'm not racist, have black friends and friends from other country's, the point t I'm making is words are just words and those that get offended by them want to be offended by something. Racism isn't that bad a thing.

You're not racist, but you might not give someone a job because of the colour of their skin and think it ok to call someone a ****** or Paki... please explain to me on what level you are not racist!

sparkie · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Can't say I've used it myself but would have no problem with others using it. Just words. Everything pretty much has a slang name. Too many victims about that WANT to be offended. I personally don't see anything wrong with racism anyway, if, say, I didn't want to give a job to a black person because of the colour of their skin then that's my prerogative. Too much is made of racism these days.

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Why? I'm not racist, have black friends and friends from other country's, the point t I'm making is words are just words and those that get offended by them want to be offended by something. Racism isn't that bad a thing.

Have you been in the pub since lunchtime ?

Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

darkwolf666 said:
You're not racist, but you might not give someone a job because of the colour of their skin and think it ok to call someone a ****** or Paki... please explain to me on what level you are not racist!

Actions speak louder than words, you can't be racists just from the words you use, and why should I have to give someone a job who has black skin just to prove I'm not racist?? Words like ******, paki, wog are just nicknames and don't hurt anyone, same as they have names for us with white skin, am I offended by them? No. Are they racist for using those words? No.

Guinness Boy · Jul 11, 2017

Either the greatest fishing trip in NSC history or the most disappointing set of posts in the same.

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The Upper Library · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Can't say I've used it myself but would have no problem with others using it. Just words. Everything pretty much has a slang name. Too many victims about that WANT to be offended. I personally don't see anything wrong with racism anyway, if, say, I didn't want to give a job to a black person because of the colour of their skin then that's my prerogative. Too much is made of racism these days.

I just want to get this clear in my own head - what I think you are saying is that you are completely happy to judge a human being solely by a fixed characteristic (I.e the colour of their skin). And that you feel that the highlighting of racism needs to slow down.

How about if you were on the receiving end of prejudice against a fixed characteristic of your own - say maybe your gender, or from where you were born or your social / economic background upbringing? In your line of argument you would not be allowed to complain.

Secondly your idea that the campaign against racism has gone far enough implies to me a feeling of being threatened - open your eyes and try to learn about life beyond what you already know.

You say it is your prerogative to judge on colour of skin but I would ask why is it?
If you can so easily judge others without knowing who they are then it is my prerogative to judge you surely? My main thought is that I hope you stop and open your eyes to life because you might just be happily surprised by what is out there

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Bakero · Jul 11, 2017

It's a brave man whose fishing trip makes him look this bad.

Simster · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Actions speak louder than words, you can't be racists just from the words you use, and why should I have to give someone a job who has black skin just to prove I'm not racist?? Words like ******, paki, wog are just nicknames and don't hurt anyone, same as they have names for us with white skin, am I offended by them? No. Are they racist for using those words? No.

I genuinely believe you make a good point, but are doing it in a way designed to annoy right minded people on here. The point is not that racism is OK, it is that these days there is often seemingly no distinction made between using an inflammatory word designed to be derogatory on the one hand, and deplorable aggressive and oppressive behaviour based on skin colour on the other.

Personally I think the two OP examples are apples and oranges. Use of the "N" word is the act of an old fossil, but completely forgivable on one level yet woefully out of touch and really showing up the individual as somebody who really should not be in public office. The second example is far less easy to forgive, but you have to frame his crimes in the time it happened. It's not the same context as if he did it last year - a large chunk of people in that part of the world felt they were at war with us. It doesn't make it right of course, but it needs to be put in the context of the time - a time when the state apparatus itself was colluding with paramilitaries to kill his side of the divide.

Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

Complete opposite, what I'm saying is the use of words like ****** paki and wog is not being racist, they are just words, slang names. If I stand in front of a black man and call him a wog is he going to drop dead or become ill just from the words alone? No he isn't, because words don't hurt anyone unless they are looking to be offended.

sussex_guy2k2 · Jul 11, 2017

essbee1 said:
Possibly the most bizarre and mystifying post I've seen on NSC.

You've clearly not been on here long enough.

The Upper Library · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Complete opposite, what I'm saying is the use of words like ****** paki and wog is not being racist, they are just words, slang names. If I stand in front of a black man and call him a wog is he going to drop dead or become ill just from the words alone? No he isn't, because words don't hurt anyone unless they are looking to be offended.

What has dropping dead or becoming ill got to do with being offended by a racist remark?

I can't be bothered to post anymore on this ..........

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Cheeky Monkey · Jul 11, 2017

Simster said:
The second example is far less easy to forgive, but you have to frame his crimes in the time it happened. It's not the same context as if he did it last year - a large chunk of people in that part of the world felt they were at war with us. It doesn't make it right of course, but it needs to be put in the context of the time - a time when the state apparatus itself was colluding with paramilitaries to kill his side of the divide.

Indeed. How many people on here who rush to judgment on the IRA would have joined them if they'd I'd grown up politicised and Catholic in Ireland in the 70s? Bushy would have done I don't doubt, and I dare say I would have done too.

Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

The Upper Library said:
What has dropping dead or becoming ill got to do with being offended by a racist remark?

I can't be bothered to post anymore on this ..........

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The point is words alone can not hurt anyone and it's not the words that make you racist, but actions. By me saying 'Enie meenie miny mo catch a ****** by his toe' or 'I'm just off to the paki shop' dosnt make me anymore racist than anyone else.

Guinness Boy · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Complete opposite, what I'm saying is the use of words like ****** paki and wog is not being racist, they are just words, slang names. If I stand in front of a black man and call him a wog is he going to drop dead or become ill just from the words alone? No he isn't, because words don't hurt anyone unless they are looking to be offended.

****ing hell, you're serious.

How about I stand in front of you and call you a stupid c**t?

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Cheeky Monkey · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
The point is words alone can not hurt anyone and it's not the words that make you racist, but actions. By me saying 'Enie meenie miny mo catch a ****** by his toe' or 'I'm just off to the paki shop' dosnt make me anymore racist than anyone else.

And yet you said you might choose not to employ a black person, so it's not just words is it? It's your whole outlook.

Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
****ing hell, you're serious.

How about I stand in front of you and call you a stupid c**t?

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Ok, dosnt offended or hurt me in any way, words can't do that and I'm not looking to be a victim.

LamieRobertson · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
The point is words alone can not hurt anyone and it's not the words that make you racist, but actions. By me saying 'Enie meenie miny mo catch a ****** by his toe' or 'I'm just off to the paki shop' dosnt make me anymore racist than anyone else.

Hmmmmm

Fred Oliver - Legend · Jul 11, 2017

Cheeky Monkey said:
And yet you said you might choose not to employ a black person, so it's not just words is it? It's your whole outlook.

I said if I didn't want to hire a black person then I don't have to,dosnt make me racist. Could be a number of reasons why I wouldn't want to hire them, not just because of the colour of the skin.

Example- I may be running an office and not want to hire any blacks because of how hot it would get and the smell that a black persons skin has is horrible, especially in a hot environment. SO by not hireing them isn't a racist act, it's just they wouldn't fit the environment. Dosnt make me racist.

The Upper Library · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
The point is words alone can not hurt anyone and it's not the words that make you racist, but actions. By me saying 'Enie meenie miny mo catch a ****** by his toe' or 'I'm just off to the paki shop' dosnt make me anymore racist than anyone else.

Someone has beaten me to it about you would happily not employ some one based on the colour of their skin is not an argument about words but is racism

Your argument about words being just words is an old one that only sort of works as a theoretical discussion. Words in isolation are just words true but the reality is behind this is context, tone , meaning etc

An example is - I can say "hey mate" but depending how I say these two simple words I am either saying hello to a friend or I am about to square up to a stranger and have a fight .

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Guinness Boy · Jul 11, 2017

Fred Oliver - Legend said:
Ok, dosnt offended or hurt me in any way, words can't do that and I'm not looking to be a victim.

Words most certainly can. I could post a ton of links on the psychological effects of words, how they're used to control and undermine people, how pejoratives have been used to intimidate racial groups from Germany to South Africa to the Deep South, how even the white working class are starting to object to "chav" or "hillbilly", how a well timed insult can send a child in to floods of tears, or the parent of a disabled kid in to a cycle of anger, annoyance and depression. But either you know this already and are on the most unfortunate wind up in internet history or you're emotionally dead.

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