Nelson and his Column

sahel said:

It is hysterical becuase nowhere is she trying to extend the article to the things you are mentioning. You are creating a "straw man" which you then knock down.

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She is using Nelson's column as a metaphore for the things we admire and how she thinks we are mistaken and missing the things we really should admire.

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studio150 said:

No, this is not America.

Whether it's overlooking the past, Nelson is remembered mainly for the Battle of Trafalgar and his other sea victories, and why 21st October is celebrated.

If there is a desire to confront the British Empire period, rather than knocking down statues it would be better to erect new ones to educate a new generation about the pro and cons of the Empire. Fortunately such statues are not beacons for the far right in the UK.

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BadFish said:

The permanently offended.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

Pedant alert, ellipsis points require only three...

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jcdenton08 said:

Pedant alart, ellipsis points demand only three.

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jcdenton08 said:

Pedant alart, ellipsis points demand only three.

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Simster said:

So it is important to you and you've given a perfectly good reason as to why. I don't know why you didn't just engage sensibly like that from the start as it was a far better response than your original glib nonsense - rubbishing those who choose to raise the issue in that annoying 'alt-right' manner is well beneath you, IMO.

As for my opinion, well I think I agree with you. Nelson is probably not the first statue we should consider pulling down, as he is not synonymous with slavery in any way. As you say, his views have to be taken into context of the prevailing views at the time. In the same way that Martin Luther King had some dodgy views on homosexuals, does that mean all his statues should be removed too, seeing as that is also incompatible with modern day tolerance? Of course not.

But, I do believe some statues need to be replaced with women. I feel quite strongly about the fact that we just don't have enough prominent women in society. That kerfuffle with Clarkes shoes really is the thin end of that particular wedge.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

Pedant alert, four points can be used when the ellipsis points follow a sentence ending period.

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Buzzer said:

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Usually, when right-wingers take offence at social justice warriors such as this Guardian columnist it's because ridiculous offence has already been taken by said SJW at some slight that was hitherto unknown and usually trivial in comparison to other related issues at hand. In this case a monument to a historic British icon who they've decided was a white supremacist without any detailed justification and stupidly applying 21st Century moral codes and ethics onto a culture 200 years ago. It equally applies though to third-wave feminists who find sexism in Western liberal democracies worth fighting against but completely ignore the abuse suffered by women in other cultures and countries.

Yes slavery was bad at the turn of the 19th century and yes black people in Britain had it bad but if the columnist was really intent on making a stand against slavery then it might be more pertinent and worthwhile actually trying to stop the slavery that exists today in the world rather than blowing smoke out their arse at what happened 200 years ago. I note that she has Ghanaian heritage. Well...I'm a member of Anti-Slavery International a charity that campaigns for the end of slavery worldwide and therefore I'm well aware of the issues of slavery in Ghana, in neighbouring Burkina Faso, in neighbouring Mali and especially in Mauritania where the government is complicit in keeping alive the centuries old slave trade in that country.

Once again, SJWs such as Afua Hirsch pick an easy target that they can sink their teeth into and pretend that they're trying to change the world when in fact they're just playing at it. Slavery won't be ended in these countries by guilt-tripping Western democracies on their past and I really wonder if Ms Hirsch is bothered at all by the extremely huge slavery problem in North Africa. I suspect if she were to address it, she might discover a few inconvenient truths about what black people are doing to other black people without any white people to blame.

Yes, I must confess Ms Hirsch offends me...or rather she offends and insults my intelligence.

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heathgate said:

Why does 'empire' and 'colonialism' always stop at the borders of western Europe..... Africa, the Middle East and Asia cornered the market in Empires and Slavery a long time before we started spreading our wings across the planet.

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Goldstone1976 said:

I'm not sure why you addressed the question to me, since I didn't mention slavery in my post - that was deliberate.

Nelson's unpleasant characteristics, upon which most biographers and scholars agree, were that he treated his womenfolk very badly, both his wife & Emma, he was cruel (particularly in stuff related to the Nile), and he was self-promoting to the point of deception. His record on slavery is more nuanced, which is why I didn't (and won't) refer to it. Sugden, Knight, and Hibbert are probably the best places to start.

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