Giving clear voice to an argument and being misguided are two different things.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Giving clear voice to an argument and being misguided are two different things.
Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(
sussex_guy2k2
Well-known member
- Jun 6, 2014
- 3,758
I don't know why anyone is getting excited about Scotland wanting to split from us. Sturgeon was elected a month ago (I believe) on a mandate to keep Scotland in the EU if we voted to leave as a union. We've voted to leave, so she's doing exactly what she's said she'd do in that mandate, and good on her for doing it. She's showing strong leadership for her country.
Surely we haven't got to a stage where we live in a world of people bashing politicians for lying constantly, and heaven forbid ours have lied throughout the referendum campaigns on both sides, and then criticising an elected official for doing the main thing she's been elected into office for.
At the Dome in a few weeks I think.
Hamilton said it wasn't acceptable. Reading the posts on here I was expecting much worse. This is Farage we're talking about, I watched the clip waiting to be outraged, and I just wasn't.I didn't say it was offensive
No I'm sure he didn't.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Surely it depends what business you're in?
The whole problem with generalising each side in this debate is that everyone has different reasons for voting the way they did. As you say it's complex, but it's also completely subjective.
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
Sturgeon sees the EU as her only hope of Scotland being able to afford gaining its independence. Scotland simply could not support itself without central government funding even if it managed to keep North Sea Oil & Gas for itself which she seems to simplistically think belongs to Scotland due to the fact its in the North Sea and many of the Oil service industry is based in Scotland, It doesn't mean the Oil & Gas is yours Nicola! She now sees a lifeline with the EU part of her plan to support Scotland financially to offset the loss of central government funding, she's an unelected spiteful single issue twot. I pray to God they have another referendum north of the border and finally bugger off to sink in a mire of economic gloom when they realise they can't pay their bills without the rest of the UK supporting them.
Totally agree.
For many businesses complaining about EU regulations, they will still have to observe them if they want to sell into Europe.
Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
Wow,you really are a fascist of the 'Elite Classes',aren't you.In a democracy,a government is elected to do what the public says it should do.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
I think you misunderstand me, I am upset that English votes have sent us heading down a path that could lead this to happen, not Sturgeon doing it.
Nixonator
Well-known member
Give it a ****ing rest.
How long are you going to continue with your classification of 'remainers' and 'leavers'? Or is it just 'leavers', the rest are the sensible ones with views you share? The referendum is over.
First us 'leavers' were lied to, now we are the liars. It's a real struggle to sieve through your dissentient shite.
Whatever the result of the referendum I am almost entirely sure I would accept and move forward. You on the other hand, are here almost a week later flying the flag of divisiveness once more.
I sympathise that it may be difficult for you to try and agree on a best approach toward what you think is a wrong move, perhaps it needs more time. But don't for one second thing that there is some kind of legitimacy in 'leavers' changing their minds because camp fear feels vindicated over forecasts. I voted knowing we would take a short-term economical hit, most don't even realise we still haven't even recovered from 2008. The pound has stagnated and plateaued since then and people view this is a good status quo to campaign and vote on? It's almost comical hearing people claim we have taken a hit from a position of strength.
symyjym
Banned
I've booked in advance.
It was cringeworthy. Another thing he said was: "17 years ago you all laughed at me, who's laughing now" It seems that his mission was more about his personal pride than leaving the EU. It was embarrassingly child like.
I think he is entertaining, but I certainly don't trust him. He fills a gap in the market and does very well for himself because of it.
He's got it easy, he hasn't even got to do any work on the Brexit plan, his job is moaning about the Brexit plan when we have one. You wait and see
Nixonator
Well-known member
I'm no great lover of the man, but he has been systematically and politically shat on for two decades, awash with false accusations and in all honesty all he was doing was campaigning for something he believed in, shared by many, with some conviction.
Still no excuse, he's certainly no saint, he's not even an MP, but you can see why he might stoop to that level when the tables turned.
severnside gull
Well-known member
symyjym
Banned
It's a freakshow to be honest and I cannot take these people seriously even if sometimes I agree with them.
clippedgull
Hotdogs, extra onions
That's what we sell to Germany, we import
United States: US$127.2 billion (9.6% of total many exports)
France: $114.3 billion (8.6%)
United Kingdom: $98.7 billion (7.4%)
Netherlands: $81.9 billion (6.2%)
China: $79.7 billion (6.0%)
Don't think Germany will be slapping tariffs on us anytime soon! We import more than double than what we export to them.
pastafarian
Well-known member
I heard plenty of small business owners during the course of the debate who don’t trade with the EU, moaning with regards to EU red tape and how they find it stifling to their business and often an unwanted burden, never stopped though
Those that trade with the EU complain about this too.
Remember that gov report on the negativity of EU red tape?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...u-red-tape-report-from-the-business-taskforce
I didn’t hear anyone however say The EU stopped them doing business here or abroad, I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say The EU has stopped them doing business,stiffled maybe but not stopped.
You clearly have.......apparently.
severnside gull
Well-known member
No. No it is not a negotiation nor will it be.
Merely will say that there can be no negotiation until Article 50 is activated. Cameron will say he is leaving that to his successor.
Both will agree that until that time we remain full members with full obligations and benefits. End of discussion.
It is in no way a negotiation no matter how hard you grab at straws
This is something that has puzzled me for some time. What exactly are all these regulations that the EU 'impose' that damages our businesses? I've never really worked it out.
Last week one chap on telly said that he was suffering directly because the company he worked for was being forced to implement an EU regulation - and rather than do that it was shutting the factory here and moving to Poland. The interviewer didn't follow-up with the obvious question of how come the factory in Poland won't have to implement the same regulation, as it will be in the EU?
Pig breeders in the UK have had a tough time I know, because we have implemented the regulations agreed through the EU, whereas other countries have just ignored them. But surely, the fact that our animal welfare has been raised is a good thing rather than a bad thing?
I know the fisherman have been particularly aggrieved, but then again, it was Europe wide cod quotas that have enabled stocks to recover.
And so on.
So, serious question, what regulations have we had from the EU that have disadvantaged us and our businesses?
In what sense have we not recovered since 2008? FTSE has increased by nearly 2000 points since then (http://swanlowpark.co.uk/ftseannual.jsp). The pound has certainly stagnated at or around 1.75 to the Dollar but is currently trading at about 1.31 - about a 25% drop. House prices have rocketed, inflation and interest rates have stagnated, unemployment is back to pre-2008 levels (but probably with crapper, zero hours contract jobs). So it is arguable that we have recovered - ask a banker and we have, ask a steel worker and we have not. That's the truly interesting thing about this referendum. People who understand the impact are also those likely to be better off if we stayed in. Can't think many Tata Steel workers had Remain posters.
None of this devalues [MENTION=225]Hamilton[/MENTION]'s points though. Voting against something you dislike but don't fully understand is perfectly acceptable in a democracy and the result should be accepted but it doesn't make it a sensible course of action financially.
symyjym
Banned
Yep, Cameron just went to Brussels to say sorry and goodbye.
The only discussion will be between EU members to come up with their Brexit plan for us and set the agenda's in advance. Meanwhile we will be flapping about for the next three months before the new PM will start on our Brexit plan.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
If we are not in the E.U. and do not have an agreement with the E.U., they will have to have Tarriffs.