Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Radical changes in DS coaching?



AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,589
Chandler, AZ
I'm a big fan of Jayson Molumby, been really impressed by him. He's a first year u18, only just sneaks into that age group, so very young and he's been getting regular game time with our U21s.

I know a 17 year old Irish international who plays for Southampton U18 / U21. I was talking to him a little while back about the Irish age-group lads at the Albion, and he was full of praise for Molumby. Reckons he is a real talent and in particular 'incredibly hard working'.

Aside from his other qualities, early indications are that he can also deal with pressure situations. He has now scored successful spot-kicks in TWO penalty shoot-outs this season (tonight for the U-21s and in December in the FA Youth Cup for the U-18s at Forest).

It says a lot about his character that Simon Rusk gave him the responsibility of the first spot-kick tonight. Just a shame that [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION] will never give him any credit (because he's clearly a second-rate prospect ignored by the top academies).
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,992
Goldstone
I read this weekend that FIFA have said no more loan windows but the FL are appealing the decision and still hopeful of keeping it. Dont know who they appeal to.
I think the way it works is that you do what the hell you want, and tell the FL to **** off. At least that seems to be how FFP works.
 


BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Aside from his other qualities, early indications are that he can also deal with pressure situations. He has now scored successful spot-kicks in TWO penalty shoot-outs this season (tonight for the U-21s and in December in the FA Youth Cup for the U-18s at Forest).

It says a lot about his character that Simon Rusk gave him the responsibility of the first spot-kick tonight. Just a shame that [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION] will never give him any credit (because he's clearly a second-rate prospect ignored by the top academies).

A complete and utter misrepresentation of what I am saying, firstly a good result and not knowing what the play was like difficult to comment beyond that, but of course its nice to see the under 21's win a game.

On the record (again) my comments are based on the overall Academy recruitment/management policy and its structure and not on the individual players, I would never comment on them individually as I dont first team players either, I have no axe to grind.

As I havent commented negatively on Molumby I dont really feel I need to defend myself too much but if he has scored two penalties good for him and perhaps he can handle pressure you and I might never really know, I havent seen the penalties and I am not sure that it gives any real long term indication of his potential to handle pressure just as it wouldnt damn him if he had missed a couple, a complete red herring.

By the way you have misunderstood the dynamics of a penalty shoot out, there are many interpretations on sequence of penalty takers, generally the first spot kick is generally seen as the lesser of the pressure kicks out of the five or more, but that isnt taken anything away from those that take them no matter what order.
 


Tim Over Whelmed

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 24, 2007
10,165
Arundel
When will people in this country realise that development ISN'T about winning. We're bloody obssessed with it, we never try players in England friendlies, due to the fact that the coach is scared he'll lose a game and his record will be tarnished, we have parents screamimg at 9 and 10 year old kids who get petrified to "try" anything new and develop, so they just stick to hoofing it, getting rid of the ball and not taking responsibility. Yes, by DS you'd hope we could start to see some results but I'd rather we saw development, players coming through who have falir, imagination and innovation; rather than morons that can hoof a ball. Let the abuse commence ....
 














hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
Probably not, Everton currently 5th with a real chance of challenging for the title of Division 1 of the Premier League U21 whilst we are firmly bottom of Division 2 if that was your point ..............

Their position clearly flatters them, if they failed to beat our rubbish second-rate imports and clueless coaches.
 


BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Their position clearly flatters them, if they failed to beat our rubbish second-rate imports and clueless coaches.

You clearly do not understand.

My comments have been in respect to the recruiting powers of Premier League teams as compared to us, we are by default tapping into the level below the very best in those countries that seem to be quite predominant in our current recruitment activities.

Established Premier League recruitment departments have historic retained scouting staff throughout the world, Brighton & Hove Albion will not be bidding for the very best, we will not see the Portuguese, French, Irish, Norwegian or Brazilian whizzkids coming to Lancing anytime soon, we cannot outbid the big hitters no matter how impressive our training ground might be.

Our default position is that we are not tapping into a unique talent pool, we are tapping into a similar talent pool that already exists here in Sussex.

So my point remains that resources might be better spent ensuring a fully dedicated development programme with the very best development coaches Bloom might afford, to try to ensure that our young good young players become outstanding young players, get real, we need to develop, nurture and support the players already here its just vanity to think otherwise.

Neither our current players or coaches are second rate or clueless, but I suspect that we could do better.
 


JCL666

absurdism
Sep 23, 2011
2,190
Thing is our DS set up is, as already mentioned, YEARS behind and it will be a while before we have brought players through the system who can compete. Hence why we are signing players from everywhere else.

BUT the stupid thing about football development is that we write kids off so early...... There is a chance that some of the players who have been with BHA since they were 12 will progress and be decent, mainly due to growing physically (and mentally). It's also possible that other kids who have not been picked up will mature and be picked up at a later stage.


However some of what [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION] says is true

An example would be Isaac Christie-Davies. He was signed from Brighton by Chelsea at u11. He's 17 and plays for their u21s. I remember speaking to his dad when Chelsea signed him. We would have had no chance at the time, and TBH we would have had no chance now. The package they offered his family was INSANE.
 




Billy the Fish

Technocrat
Oct 18, 2005
17,472
Haywards Heath
So my point remains that resources might be better spent ensuring a fully dedicated development programme with the very best development coaches Bloom might afford, to try to ensure that our young good young players become outstanding young players, get real, we need to develop, nurture and support the players already here its just vanity to think otherwise.

Neither our current players or coaches are second rate or clueless, but I suspect that we could do better.

Is that not what every academy is trying to do? As you say, Burke put this structure in place and youth development was the area that he had the most experience in, you've got to think he had some idea of what he was doing because he got the cat A rating.

Are you really saying that after spending £15m on facilities the club hasn't put in place the best possible structure that it could have?
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
Is that not what every academy is trying to do? As you say, Burke put this structure in place and youth development was the area that he had the most experience in, you've got to think he had some idea of what he was doing because he got the cat A rating.

Are you really saying that after spending £15m on facilities the club hasn't put in place the best possible structure that it could have?

His point (and of course it has some validity) is that the 'structure' includes a scouting structure, which identifies players from afar - who then get treated favourably down the line, at the expense of local kids, because those that recruited them have a vested interest in their development.

Basically, the guy in charge, if he's signed off the cheque for £250k for an Icelandic 15 year old, doesn't want to sit in the board meeting after the next set of releases, and tell Tony that Gylfi wasn't that good so they released him, and kept on Tom from Steyning instead.

As I say, there is something in what BGully says - but he needs to temper it - he's flatly assuming a scenario of "Brighton sign them = nobody bigger wanted them = they are not going to be better than what we have". He's wrong - its no different to ANY other level / age-group - you have to trust your recruitment team to get value, and see what others haven't. His view, extrapolated, would be that there was no point us signing Beram Kayal, as bigger teams didn't want to sign him. No different.
 


BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
His point (and of course it has some validity) is that the 'structure' includes a scouting structure, which identifies players from afar - who then get treated favourably down the line, at the expense of local kids, because those that recruited them have a vested interest in their development.

Basically, the guy in charge, if he's signed off the cheque for £250k for an Icelandic 15 year old, doesn't want to sit in the board meeting after the next set of releases, and tell Tony that Gylfi wasn't that good so they released him, and kept on Tom from Steyning instead.

As I say, there is something in what BGully says - but he needs to temper it - he's flatly assuming a scenario of "Brighton sign them = nobody bigger wanted them = they are not going to be better than what we have". He's wrong - its no different to ANY other level / age-group - you have to trust your recruitment team to get value, and see what others haven't. His view, extrapolated, would be that there was no point us signing Beram Kayal, as bigger teams didn't want to sign him. No different.

Yes, yes we agree to a point.

I do not wish to condemn our system or structures (although I am) and certainly not the young players from wherever they come as its a tough enough journey already, but to overcome the inevitable recruitment predicament it seems pointless continuing a policy where we are acting as if we are a Premier League big hitter whilst not able to deliver Premiership youngsters (in terms of foreign young player recruitment), unfortunately it is driven by vested interest and a little bit of vanity.

It all seems a bit of an engineering job and I think it wholly effects any development programme, if one exists, let alone those local 'talented' youngsters that then get prematurely squirted out.

Why not create an environment where we might have a Sussex lead policy of taking the very best of Sussex youngsters and invested in those players development, it takes skilfull and imaginative coaches, opportunity and a driven policy, we might lose a couple of Isaac Christie-Davies ( I know his Dad, Dave, if I recall ) but if our Irish, Scottish, Norwegian imports were as good as Isaac, then they would be lost anyway to the established Premier League representatives of that country and as I have mentioned we are left with a choice of 'the others'.

The magic bullet is development, we might even see our youngsters at 18, 19 & 20 year old start to overtake those young starlets that shunned us at the first stage, how good would that be.
 




Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Whats with this time stuff, Brighton has had an active 'academy system' for 35 years.

The buildings are better, but can we yet emulate Ian Chapman, John Byrne. Russell Bromage, Dean Wilkins etc. as a coaching pathway for a young player ??

Can we emulate a quarter final FA Youth Cup run in 2005 under Wilkins beating Chelsea, Blackburn and only going out at Newcastle on penalties, we havent won a single FA Youth Cup game in 4 seasons ??

It wasn't the quarter final, it was the 5th round at Newcastle. I watched it.

Btw you will have noticed that our current U21s beat Everton on penalties last night, to go into the quarter final of the Youth League cup.
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
...if our Irish, Scottish, Norwegian imports were as good as Isaac, then they would be lost anyway to the established Premier League representatives of that country and as I have mentioned we are left with a choice of 'the others'.

Not necessarily so. That's the key - we have to be smarter. If a player / his parents / representatives are determined to go where they are offered the best financial package, that's probably the case. We have to offer something else - identify the good ones earlier, or identify the best then persuade them to chose us over bigger clubs by some other selling point - be that personal contacts (such as Morling from the FAI), or facilities, or better pastoral care, or a proven pathway to the first team.

Mar Larrussen and Molumby are rated as the single best players of their age groups in their respective countries. Not every player decides purely on cash / club status.
 


BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
It wasn't the quarter final, it was the 5th round at Newcastle. I watched it.

Btw you will have noticed that our current U21s beat Everton on penalties last night, to go into the quarter final of the Youth League cup.

Yes, good result, why would I wish anything other than for them to win.

But if you are trying to compare the success of one random win against Everton last night on penalties (although a good result) as against the FA Youth Cup run in 2005/06 then I think you are winging it a little ......
 


BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Not necessarily so. That's the key - we have to be smarter. If a player / his parents / representatives are determined to go where they are offered the best financial package, that's probably the case. We have to offer something else - identify the good ones earlier, or identify the best then persuade them to chose us over bigger clubs by some other selling point - be that personal contacts (such as Morling from the FAI), or facilities, or better pastoral care, or a proven pathway to the first team.

Mar Larrussen and Molumby are rated as the single best players of their age groups in their respective countries. Not every player decides purely on cash / club status.

Yes thats right I totally agree, create a development/recruitment environment where we might make them think, early identification, perhaps high status trusted coaches, definitely a local lad with an affinity to the club, reluctantly use the cash saved on further afield recruitment thats key too, absolutely.

I cannot comment on Molumby, however Iceland has the population of Eastbourne, so for me go for the best Eastbourne youngster ahead of Mar Larrussen .......
 




Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,714
GOSBTS
Yes, good result, why would I wish anything other than for them to win.

But if you are trying to compare the success of one random win against Everton last night on penalties (although a good result) as against the FA Youth Cup run in 2005/06 then I think you are winging it a little ......

They are in the quarter finals of the Premier League Cup... beating EVERTON...
 





Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here