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This is terrifying.



Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
Gwylan said:
While it's a bone-headed thing to do, I wonder what the charge would be: Assault? It would clear the way for a hell of a lot of charges if bumping into someone led to an assault charge.
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He didn't bump into her. Thanks to the shadow, we can see that she was moving away from him and left him loads of room. It's very clear that he moved towards her and deliberately pushed her over, onto a busy road.

How about attempted murder.

Gwylan said:
if a jogger knocking into someone is assault, then every time that a jogger knocks into someone, that's assault
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You haven't watched it have you.

Might as well say 'if a pedestrian headbutting someone in the face is assault, then every time a pedestrian bumps into someone, and their heads touch, then it's assault'.
 
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Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,220
Gwylan said:
I'm not defending the little **** in any way but that's a dangerous path to go down. English law is determined by case law so, if a jogger knocking into someone is assault, then every time that a jogger knocks into someone, that's assault.
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I'd class deliberately knocking into someone and barging them into the road as assault. After which, social media will do it's thing in it's own way. **** deserves all that's hopefully coming to him.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
Tom Hark said:
I'd class deliberately knocking into someone and barging them into the road as assault. After which, social media will do it's thing in it's own way. **** deserves all that's coming to him.
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He'll be called a **** on social media. I've been called worse on here (by you even), he deserves a criminal conviction IMO.
 








G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Triggaaar said:
He didn't bump into her. Thanks to the shadow, we can see that she was moving away from him and left him loads of room. It's very clear that he moved towards he and deliberately pushed her over, onto a busy road.

How about attempted murder.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the option to avoid a pile-up of assault charges but there's a problem with that too. First of all, you'd have to prove intent. It's certainly not clear that he moved towards her deliberately - you may think he did but plenty of people wouldn't (me for example).

Second, you'd have to prove that he knew a bus was coming: again, that wouldn't be easy - it was behind him. And third, you'd have to ask why: did he know the woman (if so, why are the police looking for him if they know who he is?); if not, are there any other reports of joggers knocking people into roads?

Above all, the CPS would have to prove all the above " beyond reasonable doubt" -I'm not sure they'd be certain about that. It's a tricky one because you'd want him charged with something but it may be a bit of a legal headache

(you can tell I lived with a lawyer for eight years - this is the sort of stuff I got every night)
 


SIMMO SAYS

SIMMO SAYS

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2012
11,717
Incommunicado
Gwylan said:
Yes, that's the option to avoid a pile-up of assault charges but there's a problem with that too. First of all, you'd have to prove intent. It's certainly not clear that he moved towards her deliberately - you may think he did but plenty of people wouldn't (me for example).

Second, you'd have to prove that he knew a bus was coming: again, that wouldn't be easy - it was behind him. And third, you'd have to ask why: did he know the woman (if so, why are the police looking for him if they know who he is?); if not, are there any other reports of joggers knocking people into roads?

Above all, the CPS would have to prove all the above " beyond reasonable doubt" -I'm not sure they'd be certain about that. It's a tricky one because you'd want him charged with something but it may be a bit of a legal headache

(you can tell I lived with a lawyer for eight years - this is the sort of stuff I got every night)
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So if she was your daughter you'd be happy to spout the complete bollocks you just have?
 






Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
Gwylan said:
First of all, you'd have to prove intent. It's certainly not clear that he moved towards her deliberately - you may think he did but plenty of people wouldn't (me for example).
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I think a jury would disagree with you.
Second, you'd have to prove that he knew a bus was coming
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No you wouldn't. The question would be whether it's reasonable to expect any vehicle to be coming.
And third, you'd have to ask why: did he know the woman
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People murder people they don't know. You don't have to know a victim to be found guilty of murdering them.
you can tell I lived with a lawyer for eight years
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No I can't :)
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
SIMMO SAYS said:
So if she was your daughter you'd be happy to spout the complete bollocks you just have?
Click to expand...

What's bollocks about it? I'm willing to bet that if they did get this bloke he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder. Yes, he might get an assault charge but, as I said, that could open up another can of worms,

And of course I'd feel the same if it was my daughter. I feel the law should apply equally without favour - no-one should be treated differently under English law
 


SIMMO SAYS

SIMMO SAYS

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2012
11,717
Incommunicado
Gwylan said:
What's bollocks about it? I'm willing to bet that if they did get this bloke he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder. Yes, he might get an assault charge but, as I said, that could open up another can of worms,

And of course I'd feel the same if it was my daughter. I feel the law should apply equally without favour - no-one should be treated differently under English law
Click to expand...

So you would feel the same if the bus run over your daughters head?
 






Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
Gwylan said:
What's bollocks about it? I'm willing to bet that if they did get this bloke he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder.
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He probably wouldn't be, but he could be.
Yes, he might get an assault charge but, as I said, that could open up another can of worms
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As you said incorrectly. He's clearly not a jogger that's accidentally bumped into someone. People do bump into each other, and they tend to apologise.

Gwylan said:
Of course not, that would be manslaughter - that would be an easy case to prosecute
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Who would you be prosecuting?
 


half time scores

half time scores

Well-known member
Mar 19, 2012
1,441
Lounging-on-the-chintz
Gwylan said:
Yes, that's the option to avoid a pile-up of assault charges but there's a problem with that too. First of all, you'd have to prove intent. It's certainly not clear that he moved towards her deliberately - you may think he did but plenty of people wouldn't (me for example).

Second, you'd have to prove that he knew a bus was coming: again, that wouldn't be easy - it was behind him. And third, you'd have to ask why: did he know the woman (if so, why are the police looking for him if they know who he is?); if not, are there any other reports of joggers knocking people into roads?

Above all, the CPS would have to prove all the above " beyond reasonable doubt" -I'm not sure they'd be certain about that. It's a tricky one because you'd want him charged with something but it may be a bit of a legal headache

(you can tell I lived with a lawyer for eight years - this is the sort of stuff I got every night)
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If the bus drivers reaction had not been so quick and she died, then he would be facing a manslaughter charge.
Is there such a thing as attempted manslaughter ?
 
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Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,587
Gabbafella said:
Based purely on how things work on NSC there can only be 3 possible reasons for such appalling behaviour:
1 - Palace fan
2 - JCL
3 - Brexiteer
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Need to stop having a go at BREXITEERS.

The other two, well, perhaps...
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Triggaaar said:
He probably wouldn't be, but he could be.
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No, he wouldn't be - as I explained earlier

He's clearly not a jogger that's accidentally bumped into someone.
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You keep using the word "clearly" incorrectly. If it was clear, it would mean that there wouldn't any dispute that he bumped into her deliberately. That's certainly not how I saw it and I'd be willing to bet that there would be plenty of people in a jury room who wouldn't see it that way. He didn't raise his arms to push, he didn't markedly swerve towards her, he didn't hit her face on. It would be a tough one

People do bump into each other, and they tend to apologise.
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Absolutely and he's a ratbag for not stopping and helping her up but failing to render an apology is not a criminal offence

Who would you be prosecuting?
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The jogger of course, are you suggesting the bus driver could be?

half time scores said:
If the bus drivers reaction had not been so quick and she died, then he would be facing a manslaughter charge.
Is there such a thing as attempted manslaughter ?
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No, there's not. If there were, I'd agree that the jogger would have a case to answer.

Just to make things crystal clear: I'm not defending the jogger in any way. Whether it was a deliberate act or not, it was an appalling thing to do and the fact that he jogged on when she approached again is deplorable behaviour. I'm sure that an assault charge could be brought against him and I'd have no complaints if he were found guilty.

I was just putting myself in the mind of the CPS lawyer handling this (assuming they find him) and thinking that this could cause all sorts of problems in the future.
 






Wrong-Direction

Wrong-Direction

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2013
13,426
Gwylan said:
No, he wouldn't be - as I explained earlier



You keep using the word "clearly" incorrectly. If it was clear, it would mean that there wouldn't any dispute that he bumped into her deliberately. That's certainly not how I saw it and I'd be willing to bet that there would be plenty of people in a jury room who wouldn't see it that way. He didn't raise his arms to push, he didn't markedly swerve towards her, he didn't hit her face on. It would be a tough one



Absolutely and he's a ratbag for not stopping and helping her up but failing to render an apology is not a criminal offence



The jogger of course, are you suggesting the bus driver could be?



No, there's not. If there were, I'd agree that the jogger would have a case to answer.

Just to make things crystal clear: I'm not defending the jogger in any way. Whether it was a deliberate act or not, it was an appalling thing to do and the fact that he jogged on when she approached again is deplorable behaviour. I'm sure that an assault charge could be brought against him and I'd have no complaints if he were found guilty.

I was just putting myself in the mind of the CPS lawyer handling this (assuming they find him) and thinking that this could cause all sorts of problems in the future.
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Next time you meet your old mate, give each other a slap around the face yeah

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
 


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