rocker959
Well-known member
Well said Mr Barber .
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Albion] Paul Barber: The Transfer Window
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
Machiavelli
Well-known member
My view on striker/s is very simple:
We've changed our formation from 4-4-2 to 4-4-1-1 which means that we need a different type of striker, one that has pace and a knack for scoring goals, with one (or, dream on, both) of good movement (like Hernandez or Aguero) or strength and power (like Lukaku or Costa). Of the three strikers we've got Murray and Hemed are similar in that they can play with their backs to goals and are target men that are decent goalscorers (with Murray the better), while Baldock has pace and movement, but simply can't play up-top on his own (Hyypia tried that; it didn't work out too clever). This meant that we really needed two strikers in the transfer window (enabling Hemed to leave), which was obvious from the point when we were promoted. We ended up with none, which is a colossal failure. We could easily have got Niasse, even at the late stage that we left it. A massive strategic error, which has left the club, CH and the players in a sub-optimal position even given the tough situation we were in as a promoted club.
That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy the season, or fail to get behind the team.
We've changed our formation from 4-4-2 to 4-4-1-1 which means that we need a different type of striker, one that has pace and a knack for scoring goals, with one (or, dream on, both) of good movement (like Hernandez or Aguero) or strength and power (like Lukaku or Costa). Of the three strikers we've got Murray and Hemed are similar in that they can play with their backs to goals and are target men that are decent goalscorers (with Murray the better), while Baldock has pace and movement, but simply can't play up-top on his own (Hyypia tried that; it didn't work out too clever). This meant that we really needed two strikers in the transfer window (enabling Hemed to leave), which was obvious from the point when we were promoted. We ended up with none, which is a colossal failure. We could easily have got Niasse, even at the late stage that we left it. A massive strategic error, which has left the club, CH and the players in a sub-optimal position even given the tough situation we were in as a promoted club.
That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy the season, or fail to get behind the team.
Knotty
Well-known member
How do you know it's 'PB primarily'? Do you have some inside information?
TB holds the purse strings ... not him?
rocker959
Well-known member
This is what matters .100%
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
I still refuse to believe that we couldn't land a striker of at least top end Championship quality with the funds we have available. I accept that we couldn't sign the very best but we are desperately light on strikers and have been for over a season now and even a half decent one gives us more options than we have ended up with. The fact that we have the same number of strikers as keepers in the squad and couldn't field a striker on the bench at Watford really doesn't make us look as professional and organised on the pitch as the powers that be would have us believe.
Do I gather the club accept absolutely no responsibility at all on this?
Do I gather the club accept absolutely no responsibility at all on this?
btnbelle
New member
- Apr 26, 2017
- 1,438
Thank you to Paul Barber for taking the time to explain just how difficult signing a striker really is. It wasn't for the want of trying. It sounds very challenging job.
Surely the players and club deserve our support no matter what. Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want at first but with hard work and determination it is possible to succeed. Maybe a striker will sign in January. If the team have a few knock backs, we all need to get behind them and encourage them to be the best they can be. Bouncebackability....
Surely the players and club deserve our support no matter what. Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want at first but with hard work and determination it is possible to succeed. Maybe a striker will sign in January. If the team have a few knock backs, we all need to get behind them and encourage them to be the best they can be. Bouncebackability....
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
I like Paul Barber. I think sometimes though he does seem a tad precious. Be it ticket swapping or transfer dealings, I've seen a couple of these statements where it seems like someone has hit a nerve.Tony's already said everything which needed to be said. I really don't think we needed a thousand word essay essentially saying "we all did our best".
We know that. I think most people don't want heads to roll they're just using social media as a place to vent their frustrations. And if we're planning on being a Premier League club for longer than a year, he'd better get used to it I'm afraid.
We know that. I think most people don't want heads to roll they're just using social media as a place to vent their frustrations. And if we're planning on being a Premier League club for longer than a year, he'd better get used to it I'm afraid.
pishhead
Well-known member
Let's look at this pragmatically and look at our contemporaries and how they recruited for strikers, this is all off the top of my head so I may miss some.
Arsenal - Lacazette
Bournemouth - Defoe
Burnley - Wood Wells
Chelsea - Morata
Palace - None
Everton - Sandro
Huddersfield - Mounie, Depoitre
Leicester - Iheanacho
Liverpool - Solanke
Man city - None
Man Utd - Lukaku
Newcastle - Joselu
Southampton - None
Stoke - Choupa moting
Swansea - Bony, Abraham
Tottenham - Llorente
Watford - Gray
West Brom - Rodriguez
West Ham - Hernandez
As I said that's off the top of my head so I'm sure I missed some. It makes depressing reading in all honesty.
Arsenal - Lacazette
Bournemouth - Defoe
Burnley - Wood Wells
Chelsea - Morata
Palace - None
Everton - Sandro
Huddersfield - Mounie, Depoitre
Leicester - Iheanacho
Liverpool - Solanke
Man city - None
Man Utd - Lukaku
Newcastle - Joselu
Southampton - None
Stoke - Choupa moting
Swansea - Bony, Abraham
Tottenham - Llorente
Watford - Gray
West Brom - Rodriguez
West Ham - Hernandez
As I said that's off the top of my head so I'm sure I missed some. It makes depressing reading in all honesty.
rocker959
Well-known member
Thank you to Paul Barber for taking the time to explain just how difficult signing a striker really is. It wasn't for the want of trying. It sounds very challenging job.
Surely the players and club deserve our support no matter what. Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want at first but with hard work and determination it is possible to succeed. Maybe a striker will sign in January. If the team have a few knock backs, we all need to get behind them and encourage them to be the best they can be. Bouncebackability....
Agreed
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
I very much like this line. I wonder how many times he had to re-write it...
GOM
living vicariously
He was referring to all social media, not just NSC. There has been some nasty and unecessary stuff I've seen on twitter
Great post. I've added Arnautovic at West Ham. (Stoke, Austria and West Ham describe him as a striker/forward, and he plays there, weighing in with goals).
kjgood
Well-known member
Interesting thread. No consensus, disparate views. It wouldn't do if everybody agreed.
8/11 ain't bad. Even the champions think they are two players short. I had even say 15/18.
I am not even envious of the strikers of the 12 clubs that matter. I'm a bit worried that Glenn Murray's legs would hold out for Premier League football for a whole season.
I think we going to need at least 42 goals from 35 games?
I'm counting in José Izquierdo as the second striker, rather than as a winger. That's where the pace is needed.
8/11 ain't bad. Even the champions think they are two players short. I had even say 15/18.
I am not even envious of the strikers of the 12 clubs that matter. I'm a bit worried that Glenn Murray's legs would hold out for Premier League football for a whole season.
I think we going to need at least 42 goals from 35 games?
I'm counting in José Izquierdo as the second striker, rather than as a winger. That's where the pace is needed.
I think Barber's responses here is pretty reasonable. Most of the points are brief and I think if he expanded on them he'd adequately address a lot of the knee-jerk anti-Barber reaction in this thread. Step back from the negative emotions of failing to get a striker in, and take a few minutes to consider both what (and how) he's written as well as what he's very carefully not written but still alluded to and I think most here will realise that he, and the club, are just as disappointed as we are. The key difference between us and Barber, is Barber's already moved on and set aside that disappointment - for the club, the focus is now on the future. There's no point dwelling on the past except to learn the lessons from where things went wrong, and Barber's pretty clear here that that's what they are aiming to do.
I think also that, reading between the lines, we got caught out with targets we'd done a lot of work for ultimately not becoming available because moves at other clubs also didn't happen. Transfers are like buying houses; there's often a bit of a chain that needs to be worked through, and if the first domino fails to fall (or falls too late) then the entire chain falls apart. It sounds like that happened to us with some of our targets, and simultaneously we got unlucky with the chain-free targets (Dwamena in particular).
That's a little unfair given what we know. We had 4 deals that were all-but executed and all failed as a result of external factors beyond our control. At least one of those (Dwamena) was a striker, and one of the others may have been Andone - making two strikers missed due to what are normally pretty rare factors.
Don't take what he wrote personally. It wasn't aimed at any individual. It wasn't particularly aimed at all, to be honest. It's a very fair assessment of the range of stuff that's been directed at the club since the window closed. I think it's entirely fair (and a very good thing) that Barber acknowledges the full range of feedback received, be it positive or negative. I prefer to see it acknowledged than swept under the rug. As long as they've taken the time to consider what lies beneath the negative commentary (which, I believe, they have based on some of his other comments).
Nope, I'd rather see him acknowledge that he's seen it, and digested it. Ignoring it can sometimes be the worst thing to do, because the spite and vitriol can often simply be a layer over the top of what is otherwise perfectly valid comments. I hope the club has someone there with the skill to wade through it all. As I noted above, my suspicion is they have done the wading - there's a few clues in what he's written (and, notably, what he hasn't written - some careful reading between the lines is needed).
Pretty fair response here, with the exception that I don't think what he's written was intended to be viewed as excuses. One of the careful bits of reading between the lines I mentioned being necessary is where and how he talks about how disappointed and frustrated the club were/are. I think, for those willing to read and digest his comments, it's pretty clear that the club knows they've failed to land a key recruitment and are as unhappy about that as we are - but they also know there's now nothing they can do about it until January, and they're moving on to work with what they've got. And that's exactly what they should be doing.
I think you're probably right that the list of potential strikers may have been too narrow, but I think it's also fair to say that we were unlucky with 4 targets (including at least 1, possibly 2, strikers) being missed through no fault of the clubs. And while it's not been stated explicitly, I think it's pretty clear that Janssen is who Barber's referring to when he says "when a player decides not to join a club, it’s often about him wanting to stay with the club he’s at, rather than snubbing the club courting him".
He's not said they aren't allowed to post unreasonable opinions. But, as supporters of the club, I firmly believe that it is our responsibility to not create an environment or atmosphere at the club that unreasonably places constraints on their ability to do the very best they can with the situation the club now finds itself re: the squad. We're very lucky to have a club that's very well run in the main (far, far better than many others). They've over many years done the majority of the work right to firstly rebuild the club, and then get us promoted to the Prem. That staff now needs to be given the trust and support to continue to do their best for the club; sending unreasonable, spiteful, destructive messages their way will do the exact opposite. I know many here will say "well, they should grow a ticker skin", but I speak from experience of working the last 10+ years in roles that involve collecting, digesting, and responding to public feedback. It doesn't matter how thick a skin you have: sustained, unreasonable, spiteful and targeted opinions will always result in reduced morale. And reduced morale results in reduced performance.
That's not to say that negative opinions can't be sent to the club. It's not the opinions themselves that are necessarily the problem; the problem is in how those opinions are expressed. It's called "constructive criticism".
The mistake you're making here is interpreting his comments in context of NSC only. But that's not what he's responding to here: he's talking about NSC, about Twitter, about Facebook, about emails and letters sent directly to the club that none of us have seen (or ever likely will). The worst of the personal attacks will most likely have been sent anonymously, and privately, direct to the club. Because at the end of the day, the sorts of people who stoop to that sort of thing are generally cowards and won't want public scrutiny (especially on platforms where they could be tracked and de-anonymised).
I think also that, reading between the lines, we got caught out with targets we'd done a lot of work for ultimately not becoming available because moves at other clubs also didn't happen. Transfers are like buying houses; there's often a bit of a chain that needs to be worked through, and if the first domino fails to fall (or falls too late) then the entire chain falls apart. It sounds like that happened to us with some of our targets, and simultaneously we got unlucky with the chain-free targets (Dwamena in particular).
That's a little unfair given what we know. We had 4 deals that were all-but executed and all failed as a result of external factors beyond our control. At least one of those (Dwamena) was a striker, and one of the others may have been Andone - making two strikers missed due to what are normally pretty rare factors.
Over the years I have made hmmm more than a few complaints to organisations & corporations regarding their service or product. Never have I had a response from the CEO spitting the dummy and accusing me of being "spiteful". Usually I get thanked for my feedback and sometimes I am compensated. That is how a CEO should react.
Instead of that tome with its shopping list of excuses, how much respect would Barber have got if he had instead written:-
"Due to a lack of experience and knowledge of the transfer market at PL level, I screwed up the transfer window. I am truly sorry and steps have been taken to rectify the numerous errors that were made".
Don't take what he wrote personally. It wasn't aimed at any individual. It wasn't particularly aimed at all, to be honest. It's a very fair assessment of the range of stuff that's been directed at the club since the window closed. I think it's entirely fair (and a very good thing) that Barber acknowledges the full range of feedback received, be it positive or negative. I prefer to see it acknowledged than swept under the rug. As long as they've taken the time to consider what lies beneath the negative commentary (which, I believe, they have based on some of his other comments).
Nope, I'd rather see him acknowledge that he's seen it, and digested it. Ignoring it can sometimes be the worst thing to do, because the spite and vitriol can often simply be a layer over the top of what is otherwise perfectly valid comments. I hope the club has someone there with the skill to wade through it all. As I noted above, my suspicion is they have done the wading - there's a few clues in what he's written (and, notably, what he hasn't written - some careful reading between the lines is needed).
Pretty fair response here, with the exception that I don't think what he's written was intended to be viewed as excuses. One of the careful bits of reading between the lines I mentioned being necessary is where and how he talks about how disappointed and frustrated the club were/are. I think, for those willing to read and digest his comments, it's pretty clear that the club knows they've failed to land a key recruitment and are as unhappy about that as we are - but they also know there's now nothing they can do about it until January, and they're moving on to work with what they've got. And that's exactly what they should be doing.
I think you're probably right that the list of potential strikers may have been too narrow, but I think it's also fair to say that we were unlucky with 4 targets (including at least 1, possibly 2, strikers) being missed through no fault of the clubs. And while it's not been stated explicitly, I think it's pretty clear that Janssen is who Barber's referring to when he says "when a player decides not to join a club, it’s often about him wanting to stay with the club he’s at, rather than snubbing the club courting him".
He's not said they aren't allowed to post unreasonable opinions. But, as supporters of the club, I firmly believe that it is our responsibility to not create an environment or atmosphere at the club that unreasonably places constraints on their ability to do the very best they can with the situation the club now finds itself re: the squad. We're very lucky to have a club that's very well run in the main (far, far better than many others). They've over many years done the majority of the work right to firstly rebuild the club, and then get us promoted to the Prem. That staff now needs to be given the trust and support to continue to do their best for the club; sending unreasonable, spiteful, destructive messages their way will do the exact opposite. I know many here will say "well, they should grow a ticker skin", but I speak from experience of working the last 10+ years in roles that involve collecting, digesting, and responding to public feedback. It doesn't matter how thick a skin you have: sustained, unreasonable, spiteful and targeted opinions will always result in reduced morale. And reduced morale results in reduced performance.
That's not to say that negative opinions can't be sent to the club. It's not the opinions themselves that are necessarily the problem; the problem is in how those opinions are expressed. It's called "constructive criticism".
The mistake you're making here is interpreting his comments in context of NSC only. But that's not what he's responding to here: he's talking about NSC, about Twitter, about Facebook, about emails and letters sent directly to the club that none of us have seen (or ever likely will). The worst of the personal attacks will most likely have been sent anonymously, and privately, direct to the club. Because at the end of the day, the sorts of people who stoop to that sort of thing are generally cowards and won't want public scrutiny (especially on platforms where they could be tracked and de-anonymised).
HalfaSeatOn
Well-known member
As a CEO said in response to an explanation of not meeting a key objective....and your point is?
Could they be from trolls, lying as to their club allegiance. On Palace and Leeds sites, I've seen comments about Bloom before, with adverse comments that touch on his physical stature and at the very same time his background / business 'acumen'. On the face of it just nasty, but with a barely veiled hint of 1920's Germany.
B52
New member
The relevance is we should have saved the last prem. loan giving us more of a chance to get that elusive striker in.!
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
We do have three of top championship quality already, the only point of another one would be if we think both Murray and Baldock are out injured for a long time. But they must have assumed Andone was in the bag for most of the last couple of days, and then that plug got pulled