[News] UK rail fares to rise by 3.2%

father_and_son · Aug 15, 2018

essbee1 said:
Will this situation be allowed to remain when we leave Europe?

Absolutely. Huge swaths of infrastructure is owned by foreign companies so why would that change because of Brexit?
We might be able to stop the rot and where they are franchise operations we might be able to claw them back over time, but I can't see, to pick a local example, EDF ever walking away from their investment in the British energy market without 'appropriate' compensation (eg selling the British arm of their company).

Who would have the cash to buy up these assets? Not the British taxpayer... so we would need to borrow the money from the Saudis or the Chinese or another cash-rich nation to buy these businesses. Voila, we own them all.... but they are all used to secure the debt we owe to other countries. ie No real change.

essbee1 · Aug 15, 2018

father_and_son said:
Absolutely. Huge swaths of infrastructure is owned by foreign companies so why would that change because of Brexit?
We might be able to stop the rot and where they are franchise operations we might be able to claw them back over time, but I can't see, to pick a local example, EDF ever walking away from their investment in the British energy market without 'appropriate' compensation (eg selling the British arm of their company).

Who would have the cash to buy up these assets? Not the British taxpayer... so we would need to borrow the money from the Saudis or the Chinese or another cash-rich nation to buy these businesses. Voila, we own them all.... but they are all used to secure the debt we owe to other countries. ie No real change.

That is quite depressing.

Kalimantan Gull · Aug 15, 2018

Husty said:
Your numbers re. subsidies and fares only go up to 2012. Not particularly relevant.

Well, thats all I have. Remember I'm coming at it from an anti-privatisation stance anyway, but the data suggests that the first 20 years of privatisation have led to more jobs, more services, lower costs, reduced subsidies, safer railways and more people than ever using the railways.

So what has gone wrong since 2012 may not be because of privatisation. Re-nationalising them may get them back on track (boom tish).

If there is to be new investment in the railways, this has to come either from the tax payer or the rail user. I assume it is coming from both, hence the increase in fares.

father_and_son · Aug 15, 2018

essbee1 said:
That is quite depressing.

Yep... but also a reason to question the 'Nationalise Everything' argument as a fix-all.

sir albion · Aug 15, 2018

RandyWanger said:
The trains I commute in on are owned by the Italian government. My increased fare is going towards making their trains cheaper. Something has gone wrong somewhere for this to be allowed to happen.

Just a needle in the haystack when it comes to foreign ownership and shares and we wonder why this country is always potless considering we have had millions of tax paying migrants flocking in and record employment and much much more.
Even the Chinese own 10% of Thames water......That's why this country is being drained of its recourses year after year is because so much is disappearing out of the country !!
I admire the people that continue to pay these hideous fees as we're such a tolerant country now :glare:

Raleigh Chopper · Aug 15, 2018

Sick and tired of being ripped off in this so called great country.
Rail, gas, electricity, water and petrol.
The companies are more or less allowed to do whatever they want, the government stand by and let it happen, maybe even encourage it but dish out the same old soundbites to make it seem as if they care.
Same old excuses for price rises, funding the new trains, wholesale prices etc etc.
When can we next get on a train on a bank holiday or Christmas without getting on a bus instead, that seems to have gone on for years now.
It all makes my piss boil

Beach Hut · Aug 15, 2018

Go back to the European model and all pay higher taxes - all aboard ?

clapham_gull · Aug 15, 2018

Beach Hut said:
Go back to the European model and all pay higher taxes - all aboard ?

Yes for public transport.

They can happily tax me more to subsidise fuel for those without public transport too.

Hampster Gull · Aug 15, 2018

Interesting the obsession with foreign ownership of train operators but little noise on foreign ownership of other companies.

Raleigh Chopper · Aug 15, 2018

So when all this rebuilding of the infrastructure finally comes to an end ( no timescale ever given) which means fare prices will go up for many years to come and we are all sitting in brand new carriages, will the trains run like the Swiss, will the fares dramatically reduce as the job is finished?
Not a chance.

sussex_guy2k2 · Aug 16, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Where do you draw the line with your thinking though? I have never had to use the fire brigade, I have never been in a hospital other than when I once had a minor cut on my head. In your mind am I being unfairly taxed?

Im not saying it’s fair or unfair. I’m just saying their are positives and negatives of both systems. And ultimately there would be a price rise, in all likelihood, no matter who was in charge. In fact, I don’t see the government giving train fare tickets for free just because it’s state owned, so if they’d not put train tickets up to directly hit consumers, it’s likely they’d have put taxes up to compensate and have hit everyone. It’s just the way of the world.

Although I guess I could put the same logic to you... where does state ownership end for things many UK citizens aren’t using?

scousefan · Aug 16, 2018

After a year of rail hell when we deserve compensation we end up paying more -again!

Notters · Aug 16, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
So a state owned train service across the country, which will lead to increased taxation, which in turn hits a vast number of people that don't even use the trains is fair?

That's the whole idea of taxes.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 16, 2018

Beach Hut said:
Go back to the European model and all pay higher taxes - all aboard ?

clapham_gull said:
Yes for public transport.

They can happily tax me more to subsidise fuel for those without public transport too.

I’m happy to pay more taxes to enable many things to work better like transport, health and education. In fact choosing to live where I do means I have actually put my money where my mouth is on this matter.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 16, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
Although I guess I could put the same logic to you... where does state ownership end for things many UK citizens aren’t using?

I believe the basics of living and society should be publically funded and run: energy, water, health, education, transport, BBC. High usage shouldn’t play a part.

seagull_in_malaysia · Aug 16, 2018

Already over £500/month for the 40 miles between Reading and London. I've thankfully called it quits and will be handing in notice next week. Just got a nice offer a 10 minute stroll away from my front door, I am done with trains.

Raleigh Chopper · Aug 16, 2018

seagull_in_malaysia said:
Already over £500/month for the 40 miles between Reading and London. I've thankfully called it quits and will be handing in notice next week. Just got a nice offer a 10 minute stroll away from my front door, I am done with trains.

My God that is outrageous, you are only on the train for 30 minutes on HST.

seagull_in_malaysia · Aug 16, 2018

Raleigh Chopper said:
My God that is outrageous, you are only on the train for 30 minutes on HST.

I think Reading commuters are the cash cow for Great Western. I don't think it costs even that much for Brighton to London which is a lot further!

cunning fergus · Aug 16, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
I believe the basics of living and society should be publically funded and run: energy, water, health, education, transport, BBC. High usage shouldn’t play a part.

Aside from the BBC I couldn’t agree more, however.......

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-seals-mass-rail-privatisation/

You can’t be a little bit pregnant, nationalisation/state aid or subsidisation will not be possible in the EU, as we all know. Privatisation is the life blood of the EU, it’s why Blair removed clause 4, etc.

Know thy enemy.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 16, 2018

cunning fergus said:
Aside from the BBC I couldn’t agree more, however.......

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-seals-mass-rail-privatisation/

You can’t be a little bit pregnant, nationalisation/state aid or subsidisation will not be possible in the EU, as we all know. Privatisation is the life blood of the EU, it’s why Blair removed clause 4, etc.

Know thy enemy.

Yet state owned and state run businesses exist in the EU. Someone is clearly talking shit

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