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Steven Gerrard



Chicken Runner61

We stand where we want!
May 20, 2007
4,609
A few good games but mostly over rated - Gerrard has something like 3 highest number of England caps and its hard to recall more than a few great performances. Of late he went missing most games, you would be easily pleased if you though that even with all those caps he was a great player for England. In fact the pedestal Gerrard is put on by people is the same reason we have had a really poor national team.All these average players given loads of caps for turning up and then hyped up for club and country
 


Tim Over Whelmed

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 24, 2007
10,165
Arundel
Fair play Stevie G, 114 caps with Becks on 115. I'd have said to Roy to chuck me in a couple of matches for my own self glory. Anyone else?
 


Smith DID score

formerly Harvey's Best
Apr 25, 2009
289
Worthing
Yes he has said he cannot play as many games so has chosen to withdraw from England rather than reducing his club appearances. That's picking your club over country is it not?

So is Gerrard deciding how many games he plays for Liverpool now or is still up to Brendan Rogers?

Surely in this day and age with the massive squads that every club in the Premier & Champions League have the MANAGER would use him as he sees fit? Giggs didn't play every game for Utd. but still managed to play for Wales AND was picked on merit to do so just as any International should be.

IMHO any professional 'retiring' from International football is ONLY after a big pat on the back from the media - there is NO other reason to do it.
 


Seasider78

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
5,926
1. Pirlo averages 43 matches a season including Europe, and he plays in a low tempo league. Gerrard with Champions League football is likely to play 50+ matches in a high tempo league.

2. International football is about playing tournaments a month after the end of the season when players are knackered. Seven matches including two or three bouts of extra time would be beyond a lot of players aged 34. Gerrard is too old and battle weary now. It's no coincidence that the team that just won the World Cup was packed with young players.

All competitions included Gerrard played 2 more games than Pirlo last season who is a year older as well. Personally I don't think Gerrard warrants a start for England but his experience off the bench and around the squad would be incredibly valuable both to Roy and our inexperienced younger players as we enter the qualifying campaign.

You paint a picture of this old guy struggling to play all these matches yet will no doubt feature heavily in both the 'high tempo' premier league and demanding European competition. If he can manage that he can manage the odd england game.

I am sure if he talked to Roy and Brendon and said he still wants to feature for his country they could manage it between them by reducing his friendly and domestic cup appearance but instead he has withdrawn from international selection.

Make all the excuses you want for him but the bottom line is this is a guy who is freely fit enough and committing to a full premier league and European campaign but can't seem to manage to help his country and a youthful england side through the next qualifying campaign
 


Seasider78

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
5,926
So is Gerrard deciding how many games he plays for Liverpool now or is still up to Brendan Rogers?

Surely in this day and age with the massive squads that every club in the Premier & Champions League have the MANAGER would use him as he sees fit? Giggs didn't play every game for Utd. but still managed to play for Wales AND was picked on merit to do so just as any International should be.

IMHO any professional 'retiring' from International football is ONLY after a big pat on the back from the media - there is NO other reason to do it.

It is not Gerrards choice but he can sit down with Rogers and discuss the situation and his desire to play for his country. Between Rogers and hodgson they could work something out to manage the player but not even had a chance as Gerrard has already made his choice about what is more important to him and it is not England.
 




Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Feb 23, 2012
21,496
Brighton
Typical media. Only interested in who'll take Gerrard's place as captain. Much more important is who'll take his place in centre midfield! Maybe Henderson?
 


red star portslade

New member
Jul 8, 2012
1,882
Hove innit
When Gerrard actually retires, he'll deserve all of the plaudits in the world, because he really has had a great career. But this is about his retirement from international football, and in reality, he's been an average performer in an average team for most of that time. I've always thought England looked better with Lampard alongside a more defensive player, possibly with Gerrard behind a lone striker if you want to play him. But to be fair to Gerrard, which players from the current generation will retire from international football being able to say they played to their potential for their country? Peter Crouch. That's it.
 


Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,276
Sven should have built the team around Gerrard between 2005-8 but instead chose to build it around a truly overrated and limited player in brand Beckham. The rest is history....

Thats because he felt that Beckham was a better leader than Gerrard. Beckham, for all his limitations, was able to take a game by the scruff of the neck as demonstrated by his single-handed determination to drive us on against Greece and get us to the World Cup Finals. In 114 appearances for England, I can't think of a single Gerrard performance that got anywhere near that level.
 






DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 3, 2012
16,538
Fantastic player and captain.

Considering how poor England have become in his playing time it would be easy to just say he was overrated but that would be extremely unfair as he can't win games on his own.

He always have 100% and wore his heart on his sleeve, compare that with someone like Rooney and it's clear that he was head and shoulders above other 'superstars'.

Good luck Stevie for the rest of your Liverpool career.

Totally agree. Always rated him as a player - and still do - purely because he never seems to stop trying.
 


Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,276
When Gerrard actually retires, he'll deserve all of the plaudits in the world, because he really has had a great career. But this is about his retirement from international football, and in reality, he's been an average performer in an average team for most of that time. I've always thought England looked better with Lampard alongside a more defensive player, possibly with Gerrard behind a lone striker if you want to play him. But to be fair to Gerrard, which players from the current generation will retire from international football being able to say they played to their potential for their country? Peter Crouch. That's it.

Gerrard was part of ' the Golden Generation ' that earned this label in the late 90's and first decade of this century. Built around the talented Man. U youth side containing Beckham, Scholes, Butt and Neville x2. It also contained Ashley Cole, Rio, Terry, Lampard and Rooney etc. On paper they looked like they could deliver trophies for England but in reality it was different. They played a lot of their International careers under Sven, a smooth slick salesman ( still fooling Chairmen around the world ) but an underachiever, an imposter, all style and no substance. Tactically naive, he was in it for the financial rewards and he was clever enough to know that quarter-finals would keep the blazers at the FA happy.
This group of players were always, potentially, good enough for the quarters. It just needed higher calibre management to get that little bit more out of them. They didn't fall short by much. Usually penalty shoot-outs.
Were they all overrated? Well, none of them were of the highest class at International level and tiny margins make the difference there. World class players give you a chance of winning a tournament allied to tactical nous and bravery from the management. They have all been ( Gerrard included ) very good club players and decent internationals but short of the highest class. They have done their best. It just wasn't quite good enough.
Potential is an oft used word and I don't feel comfortable when it is used about adult, mature players. Potential is shown by youngsters when they are still learning the game and when people are not sure how they are going to develop. It is a common mistake to expect club form to be replicated on the International stage. It is totally different. The pressure is a million miles apart. A few players can make that transition, enjoy it, enjoy the challenge and perform successfully. Many can't. Its not their fault. They just haven't got that little bit of extra class allied to temperament. Gerrard comes into this category, along with all the others of his generation. Some, less talented ( Crouch, Keegan, Beckham, Platt etc ) work and work at their game and maximise their ' potential 'despite their limitations. Others, more talented, work less hard and progress less ( Rooney being a prime example )
Its time for Gerrard to go. Brazil proved it was one tournament too far. It wasn't his fault. He just couldn't cope with the pressure. Now, he can relax in the PL, where he feels comfortable and good players around him will help him. Of the players to have reached 100+ caps for England, Gerrard's career will probably show the most number of 'ordinary ' performances.
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
All competitions included Gerrard played 2 more games than Pirlo last season who is a year older as well. Personally I don't think Gerrard warrants a start for England but his experience off the bench and around the squad would be incredibly valuable both to Roy and our inexperienced younger players as we enter the qualifying campaign.

You paint a picture of this old guy struggling to play all these matches yet will no doubt feature heavily in both the 'high tempo' premier league and demanding European competition. If he can manage that he can manage the odd england game.

I am sure if he talked to Roy and Brendon and said he still wants to feature for his country they could manage it between them by reducing his friendly and domestic cup appearance but instead he has withdrawn from international selection.

Make all the excuses you want for him but the bottom line is this is a guy who is freely fit enough and committing to a full premier league and European campaign but can't seem to manage to help his country and a youthful england side through the next qualifying campaign

So he played more games than Pirlo despite the fact they weren't in the Europa League! In 2014/15 they have a guaranteed 6 games in the group stage and then 2 per round thereafter. You'd probably expect them to play 8 matches, and have all of the attendant travelling that goes with it. He didn't have any of this in 2013/14 and he'll be one year older.

I'd be interested to hear your views on Philipp Lahm's international retirement. He's only 30 years of age and has just quit as Germany captain. Many people are saying we should be following the German model; they tend to rebuild following a World Cup so, in effect, Gerrard IS following the German model. I guarantee that if Gerrard was German they would expect him to retire - indeed, they'd have demanded it 2 years ago. Having Miroslav Klose coming off the bench or playing 60 minutes is one thing, but Gerrard has suffered injuries and put his body on the line for club and country playing his particular dynamic form of the game. There's no doubt he's made the right decision.
 


keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,630
Sven should have built the team around Gerrard between 2005-8 but instead chose to build it around a truly overrated and limited player in brand Beckham. The rest is history....

How did he build a team around Beckham? He played right-wing, no-one was moved around to accomodate him or a wierd formation created for him.

The issue with Gerrard was (until his legs gave away) the difficulty in finding a position that he was comfortable in and got the best out of him. He's a fantastic player but lacked the tactical discipline to play in a specific role. he got a lot of freedom for Liverpool which you're never going to get in a England team
 


Seasider78

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
5,926
So he played more games than Pirlo despite the fact they weren't in the Europa League! In 2014/15 they have a guaranteed 6 games in the group stage and then 2 per round thereafter. You'd probably expect them to play 8 matches, and have all of the attendant travelling that goes with it. He didn't have any of this in 2013/14 and he'll be one year older.

I'd be interested to hear your views on Philipp Lahm's international retirement. He's only 30 years of age and has just quit as Germany captain. Many people are saying we should be following the German model; they tend to rebuild following a World Cup so, in effect, Gerrard IS following the German model. I guarantee that if Gerrard was German they would expect him to retire - indeed, they'd have demanded it 2 years ago. Having Miroslav Klose coming off the bench or playing 60 minutes is one thing, but Gerrard has suffered injuries and put his body on the line for club and country playing his particular dynamic form of the game. There's no doubt he's made the right decision.

For what it's worth I share the same opinion of Lahm and with him also I fail to understand how he is capable of playing at the top end of European club competition but rules themselves out of the national side. For me international football should be the pinnacle of a players career but we now see countless examples of players shunning their national sides in favour of their club football.

If you went up to Low and asked him if he thought Lahm could feature for him in the next campaign what do you think he would say? Likewise if you offered Hodgson to have Gerrard for the qualifying squad would he turn it down?

The very fact these players continue playing shows they are capable of continuing but club football now calls all the shots which is not a development I am particularly comfortable with.

We may follow the German model and decide to retire players early but I would be happier if that was the national coach decision rather than the players
 




supaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 19, 2004
9,609
The United Kingdom of Mile Oak
114 caps for England, what an amazing achievement to play for your country that number of times! A succession of England managers obviously rated him.

I suppose even the most successful get used to criticism from the motley scrotes who consider it an amazing achievement if they manage to visit the toilet without wetting the floor.

Well, I don't recall that many of the 114 games where he has stood out.

All I remember about him is the amount of times he would waste possession of the ball with stupidly overhit passes which led to England being in trouble in defence.
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
For what it's worth I share the same opinion of Lahm and with him also I fail to understand how he is capable of playing at the top end of European club competition but rules themselves out of the national side. For me international football should be the pinnacle of a players career but we now see countless examples of players shunning their national sides in favour of their club football.

If you went up to Low and asked him if he thought Lahm could feature for him in the next campaign what do you think he would say? Likewise if you offered Hodgson to have Gerrard for the qualifying squad would he turn it down?

The very fact these players continue playing shows they are capable of continuing but club football now calls all the shots which is not a development I am particularly comfortable with.

We may follow the German model and decide to retire players early but I would be happier if that was the national coach decision rather than the players

I think there is an important distinction between players like Lahm and Gerrard who have 100+ caps, are over 30 and who will be 34 and 38 by the time the next World Cup comes around, and those players who retire from international football in their 20s. I think we really would have a problem if that started to happen on a big scale, but that isn't the case.

I also think that fans over-estimate the attraction of international football, as compared with the Champions League, for the players themselves. The very best quality of football you'll see anywhere in the world will usually be in the Champions League, not in a World Cup.
 


Everest

Me
Jul 5, 2003
20,741
Southwick






Everest

Me
Jul 5, 2003
20,741
Southwick


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,341
Faversham
He has just announced he's leaving Liverpool at end of season. I am baffled by posts about who will now captain England. Rooney is England captain. Gerrard retired from international football after the world cup. Have I entered some sort of time warp on here? :ffsparr:
 



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