As a card carrying member of the Conservative Party, this.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Who will win the Mass Debate Tonight ?
- Thread starter Uncle Spielberg
- Start date
As a card carrying member of the Conservative Party, this.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
If he does, then those of us without a million or so earning tax-free interest in some offshore account are even more ****ed.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Vote Labour then, Boz. Miliband has ruled out forming a coalition with the SNP, but I don't believe Cameron has.
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
why did they put up two jobs Shapps the man is an embarassment to his own partyWas looking forward to a sensible post-debate chat on QT, then I see Piers Morgan
No but Mrs Cranky has ruled a coalition with the Tories so its irrelevant.
I always felt it was my good looks, intelligence and wit which got me the chicks, maybe it is my socialism?
New Labour, More Fanny.
Clayton Blackmore?
Rookie
Greetings
- Feb 8, 2005
- 12,070
The sight of sturgeon on her knees in a desperate attempt to be kingmaker was not nice.
I am very much in favour of the Scottish, Welsh or Irish not having a say in English matters in the same way the English don't get a say on devolved matters in their countries. The thought of the snp or th Welsh or Irish nationalists having a major say in matters which don't affect them is, in my view, wrong.
I am very much in favour of the Scottish, Welsh or Irish not having a say in English matters in the same way the English don't get a say on devolved matters in their countries. The thought of the snp or th Welsh or Irish nationalists having a major say in matters which don't affect them is, in my view, wrong.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Rookie
Greetings
- Feb 8, 2005
- 12,070
Not at all, but on devolved matters the country that will be affected should have the say. English MPs can not vote on devolved matters in Scotland so why should Scottish MPs be able to vote on matters that will not have an impact on them.
Matters that will apply to the whole of the uk should obviously be voted on by all
pasty
A different kind of pasty
I think Cameron's decision not to take part in last nights debate may turn out to be a shrewd move. All we were left with was Labour and the minority parties squabbling among themselves, making their pitch to be part of any potential coalition. I'm sure the Conservative PR machine will make something out of that.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
We don't have a devolved parliament. The UK parliament is based in England, 82% of MP's represent English constituencies. The whole point of devolution is for fair representation for the countries under represented in a UK parliament. Scotland has 9% of seats, Wales 6% and NI 3%.
Scottish MP's in the UK parliament also have no say on devolved matters in Scotland. The West Lothian question was never asked for English votes for English matters, it was a question asked by the West Lothian MP Tam Dalyell because he would be voting on matters that wouldn't effect his constituents.
Unless England has a devolved parliament of its own, with it's own members like the other assemblies, then constitutionally, I don't see how any one member of the UK parliament can have any greater right than another to vote on any matters.
If England is to be the leader of the UK government (which it clearly is by a vast majority) then it needs to accept that MP's from certain constituencies will be voting on matters that don't directly effect their constituents. That is the West Lothian question, because all MP's vote on matters that don't necessarily impact on their own constituents, but effect others one way or another - hence we devolved powers. With an 82% majority in the House of Commons, England never has had a problem passing English laws.
edit:
The problem isn't actually anything to do with English votes for English laws, the problem is between left and right. If Scotland and Wales were split evenly between left and right, there wouldn't really be an issue, as politically this 18% voting block would be split across party lines. The problem is that the 18% is mostly left. This argument has little to do with the question of devolved powers, and is actually just party politics.
Besides, hasn't the McKay commission proposed that all MP's can vote on any matters, but on matters effecting England or England and Wales, a majority of English MP's would be required, even though all MP's are voting.
Last edited:
Austerity has affected most people and their input would be welcomed
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
i think on balance Miliband done well on the night. the talking into the camera is still weird, but he got his points across. however strategically, i dont know if its win. Sturgeon and Wood were like a couple of sirens, calling Ed to come to bed with them. he resisted well, but you know he wanted to, he'd happily get cosy with Sturgeon who is closer to his natural politics. if Scots voter see that they dont need Labour, when SNP will promise the earth and get in coalition with Labour at Westminster anyway, this might mean Labour dont ever see a majority again.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
What Sturgeon has done is present a pragmatic face to the rest of the UK voters who might sway away from voting Labour because of what the SNP represent. The more the SNP look a reasonable, intelligent party beyond simply independence, the more likely swing voters will not see a vote for Labour as dangerous as they previously thought. Right now, the demon monster hell hath no fury prospect of a Labour/SNP coalition, is not quite so scary to the rest of the left minded electorate (still terrifying to the right of course!).
ROSM
Well-known member
It actually went much better than I feared for ed m
His answer on Syria presented himself in a good light and the batting away of the rutting calls of the celtic ladies was great to watch. A few hits were landed - his nuclear answer re iris wasn't clear and it was strange to see wood and sturgeon urging him to be more left wing and radical.
What will help him was his raising of the snp propping up the tories earlier in this generation.
His answer on Syria presented himself in a good light and the batting away of the rutting calls of the celtic ladies was great to watch. A few hits were landed - his nuclear answer re iris wasn't clear and it was strange to see wood and sturgeon urging him to be more left wing and radical.
What will help him was his raising of the snp propping up the tories earlier in this generation.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
Is it only me but I thought the greens and plaid Cymru came over as raging Trotskyists.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, but what is the point in suggesting we abandon austerity, when we will end up spending all our money on paying off interest on debt?
If the best we as a nation can come up with as a prime minister is ed milliband then we are truly ****ed....and no I am not a fan of Cameron either.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, but what is the point in suggesting we abandon austerity, when we will end up spending all our money on paying off interest on debt?
If the best we as a nation can come up with as a prime minister is ed milliband then we are truly ****ed....and no I am not a fan of Cameron either.
Or, as pointed out last night, we see a much bolder Labour Party. I will happily sign up to this.
This.