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[Brighton] Valley Gardens works



Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,664
West west west Sussex
Weststander said:
My longheld dream (very unlikely due to sheer capital cost) is for a tram or light railway in the conurbation. Route one - Black Rock or Marina or bottom of Wilson Avenue, to Shoreham by the Adur. This would be so attractive to commuters, shoppers, etc. Seeing in the flesh old and brand new tram systems in places such as Amsterdam, Toulouse, Orleans, they're all amazing. With other key routes too.

Politely, you don't drive do you? I think the proportion of petrol/diesel heads out there, as well as the lazy, is huge. Some young people in this suburb drive their kids 300m to school, then drive home again, rain or shine. People are in love with modern cars, the resulting privacy, gadgets, music etc. It's so cheap now to get an Audi, BMW, Merc or Landrover on contract hire or PCP.

I reckon it will take stick: huge fuel prices prices, Valley Gardens type schemes, to force some of them to give up use of the car.
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I do drive, I just don't enjoy it, and genuinely don't understand why others do.
The year before last I cycled more miles than I drove, which was pleasing.

My long held dream, for my village, would be a car free Sunday one day next year.
Granted I'm not doing anything about it so I can hardly complain.

I extrapolate that out, on here, as my twitter feed fills up with stories of Paris, Cheltenham, and the jewel in the crown that is Utrecht.

Brighton is blighted by too many cars, I'd love for a car free day, just to get everyone a moment to pause for thought.
The fact that you have the only Green MP and it still hasn't happened, just once, is almost criminal.
 










Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,909
Withdean area
Stat Brother said:
I do drive, I just don't enjoy it, and genuinely don't understand why others do.
The year before last I cycled more miles than I drove, which was pleasing.

My long held dream, for my village, would be a car free Sunday one day next year.
Granted I'm not doing anything about it so I can hardly complain.

I extrapolate that out, on here, as my twitter feed fills up with stories of Paris, Cheltenham, and the jewel in the crown that is Utrecht.

Brighton is blighted by too many cars, I'd love for a car free day, just to get everyone a moment to pause for thought.
The fact that you have the only Green MP and it still hasn't happened, just once, is almost criminal.
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Isn't it great when some councils close off some residential streets for the day? People venture out, kids play without fear of being hit by a one tonne tin can, pollution levels dive. Fleeting, but an insight.

I always love it when it snows heavily. On the hill and a few miles from the sea, we can get a lot by Sussex standards. Traffic is minimal, people start walking to the local shops, we even talk with people along the road for the first time.
 






G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
The Large One said:
There's no point in publicising a Park & Ride to serve one of the most visited cities in England (especially in the summer) and then having only 120 spaces. I don't think it's anyone's idea of a good plan.

Oxford's Park & Ride, for example, has 2,400 spaces across three sites.
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I don't know about other places but I know Oxford and the P&R there is successful because it's near impossible to park in Oxford (it's not easy to drive either given the number of bus and cycle lanes). If B&H were to introduce a P&R (even assuming they could magic a site from somewhere), they'd have to severely reduce the amount of parking in town and pedestrianise huge chunks of the centre.

Weststander said:
For a while it was Green council administration. But there were blunders, and they faced an onslaught from Labour and Tory councillors and supporters.
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It's also worth pointing out that the Greens were never in power - they ran the council but had no overall control and relied on Labour or Tory votes to get anything passed. But there's not been much difference between Lab, Tory or Green transport policies in the last few years anyway.
 






The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Gwylan said:
It's also worth pointing out that the Greens were never in power - they ran the council but had no overall control and relied on Labour or Tory votes to get anything passed. But there's not been much difference between Lab, Tory or Green transport policies in the last few years anyway.
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Quite. There were howls - often on here - about how the Greens when they held sway, were 'anti-car', and that they closed roads to traffic, both of which of course are total bollocks. They are anti-pollution. But then, as you say, so are Labour and the Tories in the city.
 




T

TimWatt

Active member
Feb 13, 2011
166
Richmond
Weststander said:
My longheld dream (very unlikely due to sheer capital cost) is for a tram or light railway in the conurbation. Route one - Black Rock or Marina or bottom of Wilson Avenue, to Shoreham by the Adur. This would be so attractive to commuters, shoppers, etc. Seeing in the flesh old and brand new tram systems in places such as Amsterdam, Toulouse, Orleans, they're all amazing. With other key routes too.
Click to expand...

Interesting feature on Brighton trams in the 1920s here: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...ains-lost-network-and-the-future-of-transport
 




W

worthingseagull123

Well-known member
May 5, 2012
2,579
Stat Brother said:
It is dumb if done in isolation.

I believe making cars the 4th option of travel, not the first, will relieve congestion as well as have considerable benefits to health, happiness and general well being.

As said earlier my problem with this plan is that it's only as good as the surrounding network.
There's no point having an all singing and dancing congestion busting area only to go round the corner into a wall of traffic.

I would like to see this as the first stage of development, I'd like to see 'car free Sundays', and so on.

The easiest way to get around this country is by car, that fine, but the easiest way to get around urban areas has to be anything but cars.
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So getting a bus with plebs is going to make people happier than driving?


Righto.
 




Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,909
Withdean area
TimWatt said:
Interesting feature on Brighton trams in the 1920s here: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...ains-lost-network-and-the-future-of-transport
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Many thanks. Interesting see the before and after maps across the cities.

In an autobio of short stories from his childhood by Bill Paterson, he talked about the traumatic day in about 1960 when the Glasgow Corporation started ripping out the tramlines outside his East End tenement. It had been the fast artery into the city centre for everything and everyone. The 'enlightened' council foresaw a brave new world of the bus and car.
 








Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,664
West west west Sussex
worthingseagull123 said:
Air con, smoking in the car, comfy seat, music, no hanging round bus stops. No stinky anti social people.

I think I will stick to the car.
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Still we won't need to worry about your car for long. :lol: :kiss:
 


B

blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
I think there's another point about transport options. Status, or perceived status.

In our national psyche, if you get a bus, you're a bus w****** ... (That's why the episode was funny... there's an element of truth that, that is how we see things). If you cycle, you're doing it because you can't afford a car and are a failure. All of course, untrue, but somewhere in our brains we form these prejudices any whether we know it or not, probably all of us have it in there to a degree.

There are a significant number of people in the UK, I reckon 50%+, who currently would never cycle, or take public transport, not because it's impractical or expensive, (though that's what they may claim as the reason), but because they consider themselves above it
 




Peter Grummit

Peter Grummit

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2004
6,769
Lewes
Weststander said:
Living very close to that Withdean site, in effect it's used as an unofficial park n ride already, with the car park full each day.

The users are invariably the elderly (free fares?), catching the 27.

The young and middle age seemingly refuse to use it, because of the love of their car (we're all guilty of this if we're honest), and I suppose there's a cost deterrant for families having to pay high bus fares times say 5. Instead, by choice suffering the congested drive into Brighton city centre by car. 90% of those under 65 simply love being in their car and won't budge.
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Not true. See, for example: https://info.uwe.ac.uk/news/uwenews/news.aspx?id=3754
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,151
worthingseagull123 said:
Air con, smoking in the car, comfy seat, music, no hanging round bus stops. No stinky anti social people.

I think I will stick to the car.
Click to expand...

Well there we have it folks, the very epitome of private motorist selfishness. Just need to confirm that poster has kids in the car that he's inflicting his smoke and shit music - and it's ALWAYS shit music - on and we have a winner at Selfish Private Motorist Bingo :thumbsup:
 


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