Proportional Representation

JCL - the new kid in town · Jun 13, 2017

Notters said:
True, but I've not really understood why - they did a good job of moderating the tories.

I agree and I believe it was down to the spin machine and people not really understanding what a coalition meant. The lib dems got blasted for not sticking to their promise to scrap tutition fees yet as the educated among us know they were never in a position of power to do that. I personally feel it was the tories that probably started that smear campaign against the lib dems and let it snowball, they love a good negative campaign.

heathgate · Jun 13, 2017

WonderingSoton said:
Seems illogical to me to use a chaotic aftermath of a FPTP election as a reason to further propose PR, because PR elections will almost always produce a similar hung result requiring collation and negotiation. If you don't like this, you won't want PR.

Always makes me smile to see the horror on the faces of many who suggest PR, because they seem to assume it'll result in some progressive utopia.

Most examples around the western democracies show hung parliament.. multiple elections .... and barely any agreement on even fundamental issues. It simply results in party political gamesmanship.... self interested minority parties swinging one way then the next..... this DUP deal being a fine example.

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studio150 · Jun 13, 2017

Mo Gosfield said:
On a pure PR system it would have resulted in...........
Con.............276
Lab..............260
LD.................48
SNP..............20
UKIP.............12
Grn................10
PC...................3
DUP................6
Sinn F..............5
Others............10

Clearly the Liberals would be far more influential and thats why PR was part of their manifesto for years.

Why on earth would we want 12 UKIP MPs. They may have a gained a few votes across the country but most of the time they were miles away from the top two.

People keep saying my vote doesn't count where I vote. However just look at Hove in the 70s and 80s. Tim Sinsbury was elected everytime by a lanslide. Without checking I seem to recall the mist excitement was in one election the Liberals came second. But in 1997 that all changed with Ivor Caplin voted in, then it became a marginal seat and now a Labour stronghold by over 18000.
It won't change overnight but the landscape can change

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 13, 2017

heathgate said:
One example anomaly apparent in the 2015 election... UKIP got 3.5 times as many votes as SNP.... result... UKIP 1 MP.... SNP 56 MP.....

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What I was trying to say is that people's voting may be changed if they know their vote counts e.g. If we ran the last election concurrently but under a PR system I would expect a reasonable number to change their vote. For example I voted Kyle in the full knowledge that any other vote, Tory aside, would have been a waste. Under PR I'd have voted green.

spring hall convert · Jun 13, 2017

I like coalitions generally, a big yes from me. More Parliamentary scrutiny and cooperation is a good thing.

Can we get votes for 16 year olds whilst we're at it as well?

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Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Not for me , the population of London and few big cities would always dictate who won and policy .

And London is full of divs

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Dick Swiveller · Jun 13, 2017

heathgate said:
One example anomaly apparent in the 2015 election... UKIP got 3.5 times as many votes as SNP.... result... UKIP 1 MP.... SNP 56 MP.....

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Nice creative accounting there.

SNP 59 Candidates 1,454,436 votes
UKIP 624 Candidates 3,881,129 votes

SNP Average votes per candidate 24651
UKIP Average votes per candidate 6220

Tony Towner's Toe · Jun 13, 2017

havent read the whole thread so apologies if already covered but as a brit living in oz for years now, have to say the system here of preferential voting is streets ahead of first past post ...that is you vote by giving each candidate a number 1 being your first preference. If they fail to register in the top two your vote then goes to your second choice and so on. basically every vote counts and no candidate squeaks in unless the majority of the electorate are broadly in favour. we do use the proportional representation system in our upper house which does tend to result in some very strange minorities getting in from time to time. That isnt really a problem unless they get the balance of power which unfortunately seems to happen too often.

Worth adding that we also have compulsory voting which also has pros and cons but at least avoids the problem of apathetic public not getting involved and in theory should help is avoid an aussie trump. Dont get me wrong, our current politics is almost as messed up as UK for all sorts of reasons but having experienced both systems I think Australia wins hands down for at least trying to make it fair

AmexRuislip · Jun 13, 2017

Whats the proportional representation of MODS that live in Sussex, to the ones that live outside the borders of the county.
Each MOD having a constituency of NSCites in their area.
Interesting to know :thumbsup?

heathgate · Jun 13, 2017

Ok.. more than twice the votes.... 1 MP vs 56 MP'S.... the analogy stands....

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Titanic · Jun 13, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
Whats the proportional representation of MODS that live in Sussex, to the ones that live outside the borders of the county.
Each MOD having a constituency of NSCites in their area.
Interesting to know :thumbsup?

Mods represent the Administrator (@Bozza) not the plebs :thumbsup:

AmexRuislip · Jun 13, 2017

Titanic said:
Mods represent the Administrator (@Bozza) not the plebs

Cheers [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION], thanks for clearing that up

Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Plooks said:
So you would prefer some peoples vote to have more power than others?
People against PR seem to be against true democracy.

Issues in Somerset or Northumberland are totally different to the latte crowd of London .

It's why they have collegiate voting in America as if they didn't New York and California would always dictate who runs the country .

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Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

I do understand why the Brexit vote was popular as everyone did feel their vote counted

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Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 13, 2017

Proportional Representation would represent a fully mature democracy. Tragically, absolutely no chance of it happening in this country anytime in the foreseeable, short of an outright revolution, on account of all the historical vested interests. Still, giving the young people a genuine idealistic reason to get out of bed and go and vote is a start.

Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Plooks said:
You are aware that you can have PR and have regional representation right?

Really . Do tell . Because I was under the impression that seats are assigned as to % of votes cast per party

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Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Proportional Representation would represent a fully mature democracy. Tragically, absolutely no chance of it happening in this country anytime in the foreseeable, short of an outright revolution, on account of all the historical vested interests. Still, giving the young people a genuine idealistic reason to get out of bed and go and vote is a start.

Lying to them that they can have everything for free seems to be working with the yoof .

They'll work it out when they grow into adults

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Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 13, 2017

Bladders said:
Lying to them that they can have everything for free seems to be working with the yoof .

They'll work it out when they grow into adults

Or maybe they've already worked out that in a first world wealthy nation, it's a choice between making that wealth work for the many or the few.

Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Or maybe they've already worked out that in a first world wealthy nation, it's a choice between making that wealth work for the many or the few.

They can workout how to use a hashtag . That's about it .

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Bladders · Jun 13, 2017

Plooks said:
Really? I think this shows you just don't really understand and have been brainwashed by the media. Look at the Bundestag or Riksdag for two random examoles.

Nope , I've just checked and seats are assigned as I said .

What's an examoles?

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