[Albion] Vicente under Chris Hughton

beorhthelm · Nov 24, 2017

i reckon several flawed assumptions. how high maintenance Vicente was (versus injured), how much an ego such as Poyet wouldn't be able to relate to and aid a gifted player, or how likely Hughton is to be giving cuddles and sympathy to single players.

under Hughton he'd be expected to do defensively, so would probably not like it much.

Buzzer · Nov 24, 2017

Blackadder said:
Whilst I am not disagreeing with you, he did get a cracking goal at Portman Road.

What I loved in a very ironic way (if I've remembered it correctly) about that goal was that Ipswich promptly scored a worldy straight after and then just to prove a point, repeated the trick.

I'm not sure how sucessful having Vicente in a Hughton side would be. I think Brighton's success under Hughton is that the team is far better than the sum of its parts and they all play for each other and having no out and out superstars in the side helps that and has made us more balanced. As much as I adored Vicente, I don't think his style is necessarily a good fit.

A1X · Nov 24, 2017

Exile said:
Plain wrong, I'd say.

If you want to discuss TECHNICALLY GIFTED (rather than strong / athletic / quick / hard-working / anything else...)

Wayne Bridge was FAR more TG than any of our current LB options.
Matt Upson more TG than Duffy
Liam Bridcutt easily comparable (TG) to Stephens
Hell, despite all being as quick as my Mum, Gary Dicker, Andrea Orlandi and Davd Lopez were all blessed in the TG department.

And we all love Anthony Knockaert, but to suggest that Vicente could have been 'AT BEST' a lesser version of him!

Madness.

I clearly meant in terms of role, not ability. Sorry I hadn't realised that wasn't obvious.

Blackadder · Nov 24, 2017

Buzzer said:
What I loved in a very ironic way (if I've remembered it correctly) about that goal was that Ipswich promptly scored a worldy straight after and then just to prove a point, repeated the trick.

I'm not sure how sucessful having Vicente in a Hughton side would be. I think Brighton's success under Hughton is that the team is far better than the sum of its parts and they all play for each other and having no out and out superstars in the side helps that and has made us more balanced. As much as I adored Vicente, I don't think his style is necessarily a good fit.

That's right. It was his first goal for us (I believe) and we went ahead. Can't remember the name of the player who scored twice for Ipswich but I know he had a gambling problem. (north-east accent).

Buzzer · Nov 24, 2017

Blackadder said:
That's right. It was his first goal for us (I believe) and we went ahead. Can't remember the name of the player who scored twice for Ipswich but I know he had a gambling problem. (north-east accent).

Just looked it up. Michael Chopra and you're spot on - a Geordie with a gambling addiction.

Blackadder · Nov 24, 2017

Buzzer said:
Just looked it up. Michael Chopra and you're spot on - a Geordie with a gambling addiction.

That's the feller. :thumbsup:

Thunder Bolt · Nov 24, 2017

Commander said:
Hughton doesn't speak Spanish. He would also want Vicente to track back and defend. End of thread.

Is it PotG? said:
I feel that his Legend status is in the Flowery Twats mode, 12 episodes or a handful of games and it gets elevated beyond where it should be.

He had a couple of nice touches, but only a couple.

Injuries and commitment questions abound.

True, and not forgetting his moaning about the medical team in Valencia. It was always somebody else's fault.

The player publicly blamed the medical staff for his continuing injuries:

"My morale is very low. I’ve lost all confidence in the medical staff, that's it. I’ve been defending them for the last two years, but I don’t see any of this situation improving, when I’m still not recovered from one injury I get worse, or suffer from another one. They give me an injection and then I can’t move myself for a week because of the pain".
"On top of this, then they tell me maybe my injury doesn’t exist, and it is psychological. It's very hard, I can’t stand it any longer. I’ve lost all confidence in the doctor, but I don’t want to be bad to anyone, but the person who loses the most is me, because I can neither play football nor help my teammates. I only ask to play twenty minutes in one go.
"That is the worst part about it all, to know that when I have the opportunity to play with good health, things turn out well for me, and I play well, I can help the team," he concluded.

Valencia responded that they would open disciplinary proceedings against Vicente after these statements, citing: 'The club will take the necessary action against the player depending on whether his conduct is considered a 'serious' or 'very serious' offence under internal regulations'. The "injury saga" came to an end when the player was fined €1,200 following controversial remarks made regarding the club's medical staff.

Alba Badger · Nov 24, 2017

Wrong thread gromit!

Dirk Lehmann's Python · Nov 24, 2017

Blackadder said:
Whilst I am not disagreeing with you, he did get a cracking goal at Portman Road.

Yeah I saw that. Absolute stunner. A rare example of what a quality footballer he could be, and let's face it he was technically excellent, but people talk as if he was some sort of Messi like figure which is nonsense.

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Cowfold Seagull · Nov 24, 2017

A1X said:
It's a bit of a moot point as Vicente was in a much less technically gifted Brighton team than Hughton has been in charge of. IMHO he might have ended up being a slightly more injury-prone version of Knockaert at best.

Was Gus Poyet's team much less technically gifted than Chris Hughton's? I'm not so sure. Being able to keep the ball on the grass, and play it through the team from goalkeeper to centre forward the way Gus demanded, certainly took an awful lot of skill.

Gritt23 · Nov 24, 2017

Reality is that if it had been the CH-era he wouldn't have come here, it was the pull of Poyet that brought him to the Amex. End of thread.

Kalimantan Gull · Nov 24, 2017

i can't ignore that it was almost certainly Gus' self-confidence and charisma that actually persuaded Vicente to come here in the first place

Wow that was a coup. And ultimately an unsatisfying one. I was never that enamoured by Vicente.

Brian Fantana · Nov 24, 2017

I can't see us signing a player of Vicente's past calibre again. I mean at one point he really was one of the best players in the WORLD. To have him playing for us in the second tier, even if he didn't really deliver much of substance, is still totally mental to me - even to this day.

Codner's Wallop · Nov 24, 2017

Rohan Ince's Python said:
He's some sort of NSC myth. He had about 4 good games for us, other than that was largely disappointing or injured.

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Oh Christ, TTF someone has seen sense over the Vicente myth. In 30-odd years, the most overrated Albion player I've watched in the stripes.

Yes, he was very skilful
Yes, he had a great pedigree
Yes he had a few isolated moments of magic

But for the most part he was a lazy waster, who barely bothered to tackle a soul and drifted in an out of games on a whim. And that's when he wasn't injured.

Please, please stop touting all this bull about Vicente being some god-like Messi figure. Utter rubbish.

matbha · Nov 24, 2017

Rohan Ince's Python said:
Yeah I saw that. Absolute stunner. A rare example of what a quality footballer he could be, and let's face it he was technically excellent, but people talk as if he was some sort of Messi like figure which is nonsense.

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He's as messi like as we will ever see in a Brighton shirt

Dirk Lehmann's Python · Nov 24, 2017

matbha said:
He's as messi like as we will ever see in a Brighton shirt

Nonsense. Knockaert over 18 months did 5 x the things Vicente ever did.

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Commander · Nov 24, 2017

Codner's Wallop said:
Oh Christ, TTF someone has seen sense over the Vicente myth. In 30-odd years, the most overrated Albion player I've watched in the stripes.

Yes, he was very skilful
Yes, he had a great pedigree
Yes he had a few isolated moments of magic

But for the most part he was a lazy waster, who barely bothered to tackle a soul and drifted in an out of games on a whim. And that's when he wasn't injured.

Please, please stop touting all this bull about Vicente being some god-like Messi figure. Utter rubbish.

I think you’re just one of those ones who doesn’t get it. He wasn’t particularly influential for us, apart from in a couple of games, and he did only produce the odd moment of magic. But the magic was that we had a (fading fast) world class player playing for us, for possibly the first time ever. A lot of the time he wasn’t that influential because the players around him weren’t in the same wavelength. He was playing with CMS FFS, imagine how frustrating that must have been. I can remember him gliding around and playing balls into space to seemingly nobody, where CMS would just look at him strangely, because he didn’t have the quality to anticipate where it would go. Vicente must have been thinking “What the hell am I doing here?”

He was a truly wonderful player in his heyday, and we were privileged to have someone like that, albeit a vastly reduced quality version, playing for us in the second tier.

He was in the FIFA World All Stars team on one of the FIFA games one year, you don’t get much better than that.

hans kraay fan club · Nov 24, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
i can't ignore that it was almost certainly Gus' self-confidence and charisma that actually persuaded Vicente to come here in the first place

Wow that was a coup. And ultimately an unsatisfying one. I was never that enamoured by Vicente.

That's because you were in Borneo at the time.

hans kraay fan club · Nov 24, 2017

Codner's Wallop said:
Oh Christ, TTF someone has seen sense over the Vicente myth. In 30-odd years, the most overrated Albion player I've watched in the stripes.

Yes, he was very skilful
Yes, he had a great pedigree
Yes he had a few isolated moments of magic

But for the most part he was a lazy waster, who barely bothered to tackle a soul and drifted in an out of games on a whim. .

This is nonsense.

When the guy DID actually play he was nothing close to 'lazy'. Effort isn't only about tracking back. He was constantly on the move, getting himself in space, demanding the ball from his team-mates.

If you think the Vicente gamble was a complete failure, you just don't get it, and never will.

junior · Nov 24, 2017

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[Albion] Vicente under Chris Hughton

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