[News] Canada legalises recreational cannabis use.

daveinprague · Jun 22, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Yes it is. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I disagree strongly. It is a plant. It is not used in the manufacture of any drug. It is a plant, that I think I read somewhere is only illegal due to the Americans being unhappy with the productivity of their workers during the Panama canal building project. I have also read that hemp production scared the crap out of the Timber industry. It is an enjoyable experience for me, and I will continue to smoke it regadless of any man made law against it.
It does cause some mental issues, but not to the extent that anti cannabis promoters would like to admit. Some people drink, and become alcoholics, some people get addicted to food and get fat. Its the individual, not the plant, the drink, or the food.

half time scores · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
Yes.... Coffee and prescription drugs are a little different. I haven't heard of any negatives to drinking coffee alas it may have happened someone choked on some. Prescription drugs are taken with the aim of improving health, not for pleasure. Personally I get very bad side effects to them.

Where alcohol is concerned, we are where we are. I agree it would not be legalised today. It is legal and while I can take it or leave it and enjoy a glass of wine, it is not that way for everyone.

I was just expressing my view with my original post, the same view held by many people, it is not an isolated one. For me it is in the correct category.

A simple google search on coffee came up with:-

https://www.caffeineinformer.com/harmful-effects-of-caffeine

Research Showing Harmful Effects of Caffeine.

More than 4 cups of coffee linked to early death. A Mayo Clinic partnered study found that men who drank more than four 8 fl.oz. cups of coffee had a 21% increase in all-cause mortality. However, those that reported that they consumed excessive amounts of caffeine were also likely to smoke and have poor fitness. Dr. Nancy Snyderman from NBC said there were a few discrepancies with the study, but stresses that moderation is still key. See Her Interview Here.

Caffeine consumption may raise blood pressure. Especially in those already suffering from hypertension and those who don’t normally consume caffeine. People with hypertension were given 250 mg of caffeine (about 2 coffees) and the data revealed that their blood pressure was elevated for about 2-3 hours after the caffeine. Src. A second study performed by The Mayo Clinic found similar results from a 160 mg dose. All participants experienced a marked rise in blood pressure and it was the most pronounced in those that didn’t normally consume caffeine. Src.

Increased risk of heart attacks among young adults. A study conducted by Dr. Lucio Mos found that young adults who were diagnosed with mild hypertension had 4 times the risk of having a heart attack if they consumed the amount of caffeine equivalent to 4 cups of coffee. More moderate consumption showed 3 times the risk. Src.

Caffeine linked to gout attacks. This study showed that people who binge on caffeinated beverages increase their risk for a gout flare-up. Src.
Breast Tissue Cysts In Women. One study showed that “Women who consumed 31–250 mg of caffeine/day had a 1.5-fold increase in the odds of developing fibrocystic breast disease and women who drank over 500 mg/day had a 2.3-fold increase in the odds of developing cysts. Src.

Caffeine could cause incontinence. A study out of the University of Alabama showed that women who consume a lot of caffeine are 70% more likely to develop incontinence. Src.

Caffeine may cause insomnia. Caffeine in a person’s system at bedtime can mimic the symptoms of insomnia. Src.
Caffeine can cause indigestion. People who consume caffeinated beverages often report an upset stomach or indigestion. This mainly occurs when the beverages are consumed on an empty stomach. Src.

Caffeine can cause headaches. While occasional doses of caffeine can relieve headache symptoms, the overuse of caffeine can cause headaches and lead to migraines. Src.
Caffeine could reduce fertility in women. A study from The University of Nevada School of Medicine showed that caffeine can reduce a woman’s chances of becoming pregnant by about 27%. Src.

Caffeine and Miscarriage Risk: In a recent study, both men and women who consumed at least two caffeinated beverages a day during the weeks prior to conception slightly increased the risks of a miscarriage. Src.

Caffeine may not be healthy for type 2 diabetics. A study conducted by the American Diabetes Association showed that caffeine impaired glucose metabolism in those with type 2 diabetes. Src.

Caffeine Overdose. While overdose is rare, it can lead to many adverse symptoms including death, especially in those with underlying medical conditions. Some have a lower tolerance for caffeine than others. Src.

Caffeine Allergies. Some people have over-sensitivity to the caffeine molecule, which causes allergic-like reactions in the body such as hives and pain. Although not a true allergy, many report very negative symptoms after consuming even the smallest amounts. Src.

Caffeine causes more forceful heart contractions. A recent study showed that immediately after energy drink consumption the heart produced more forceful contractions. It is unclear if this has any long-term health implications except for those with known health conditions. Src.

Worse Menopause Symptoms. A recent study published in The Journal of The North American Menopause Society showed that menopausal women who consumed caffeine had a greater degree of vasomotor symptoms. Src.

Caffeine consumption can lead to increased anxiety, depression and the need for anxiety medication. Src and Src. See also our article as to why caffeine causes anxiety and panic attacks.

Caffeine increases the amount of sugary beverages consumed by people, which contributes to obesity and diabetes. Src.

Caffeine inhibits collagen production in the skin. This effect is dose-dependent but really heavy caffeine consumers should be aware. The Study.

Caffeine interferes with ossification and could also lead to greater risk of bone fractures. This is dose dependent, but heavy caffeine consumers should take note. Study 1 (pdf) Study 2.

Caffeine Does Not Help With Prolonged Sleep Deprivation: This can lead to a false sense of security for those that have been sleep deprived for multiple days in a row and choose to get behind the wheel or do some other focus required task, thinking that as long as they have caffeine, they’ll be able to perform. Researchers from the American Academy of Sleep Medicine came to this conclusion after studying caffeine’s effects on their sleep-deprived test subjects. Here’s the study in detail.

Caffeine May Impair Hearing Loss Recovery: For guinea pigs exposed to excessive levels of noise, caffeine was shown to delay the rate at which the guinea pigs recovered from noise-induced hearing loss. Here are the results of a recent study that investigated the problem. A correlation to humans is believed to exist but more research will be needed.

daveinprague · Jun 22, 2018

Triggaaar said:
What are the reasons in the current law?

'In Britain itself, in 1928 in accordance with the 1925 International Opium Convention, the United Kingdom first prohibited cannabis as a drug, adding cannabis as an addendum to the Dangerous Drugs Act 1920'

'In the survey-year ending March 2014, possession of cannabis offences accounted for 67% of all police recorded drug offences in the UK'

Police could probably be better employed.

half time scores · Jun 22, 2018

Double post

dingodan · Jun 22, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I agree there are problems with the way it's currently handled, and there are benefits to legalising it (such as the quality of it not being down to drug dealers). But legalising it would mean more users. It's not clear what the affects would be.

Actually the available evidence doesn't support that.

"There is little evidence that decriminalization of marijuana use necessarily leads to a substantial increase in marijuana use."

- The National Academy of Sciences

When it comes to use by young people, several recent reports have found that in the majority of states that have approved medical marijuana, use among teenagers has actually decreased.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/does-marijuana-legalization-lead-increased-use

Despite these legitimate concerns, thus far there are no compelling data to suggest that drug use has increased in Colorado where recreational cannabis is currently legal. Even though it’s only recently that Colorado legalized marijuana, I don’t expect this to change going forward.

A large study found that rates of cannabis use among teenagers in states that legalized medical marijuana did not increase. And since Colorado fully legalized cannabis in 2013, the early reports show that rates of cannabis consumption among teens have continued to decline, which is part of a nation-wide trend.

Additionally, we have an example of a country where drugs were decriminalized over a decade ago. Portugal decriminalized drug use in 2001. Drug users are not punished for their offense when found to possess drugs, but instead are offered access to treatment and rehab. The result: a decade later, drug abuse was cut in half in Portugal.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...izing-marijuana-increase-its-use-probably-not

This evidence provides no indication that decriminalization leads to a measurable increase in marijuana use.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/miron/files/decrim_update_2007.pdf

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

BadFish said:
I, and a number of other people I know who have experienced depression and other mental health problems have found that the symptoms are lessened after giving up coffee.

Yes I would totally agree. I don't drink coffee because it make me feel strange. As a result I stopped enjoying it.I did joke in an earlier post coffee is dangerous. Its great to have information so people can make their own choices.

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

half time scores said:
A simple google search on coffee came up with:-

https://www.caffeineinformer.com/harmful-effects-of-caffeine

Research Showing Harmful Effects of Caffeine.

More than 4 cups of coffee linked to early death. A Mayo Clinic partnered study found that men who drank more than four 8 fl.oz. cups of coffee had a 21% increase in all-cause mortality. However, those that reported that they consumed excessive amounts of caffeine were also likely to smoke and have poor fitness. Dr. Nancy Snyderman from NBC said there were a few discrepancies with the study, but stresses that moderation is still key. See Her Interview Here.

Caffeine consumption may raise blood pressure. Especially in those already suffering from hypertension and those who don’t normally consume caffeine. People with hypertension were given 250 mg of caffeine (about 2 coffees) and the data revealed that their blood pressure was elevated for about 2-3 hours after the caffeine. Src. A second study performed by The Mayo Clinic found similar results from a 160 mg dose. All participants experienced a marked rise in blood pressure and it was the most pronounced in those that didn’t normally consume caffeine. Src.

Increased risk of heart attacks among young adults. A study conducted by Dr. Lucio Mos found that young adults who were diagnosed with mild hypertension had 4 times the risk of having a heart attack if they consumed the amount of caffeine equivalent to 4 cups of coffee. More moderate consumption showed 3 times the risk. Src.

Caffeine linked to gout attacks. This study showed that people who binge on caffeinated beverages increase their risk for a gout flare-up. Src.
Breast Tissue Cysts In Women. One study showed that “Women who consumed 31–250 mg of caffeine/day had a 1.5-fold increase in the odds of developing fibrocystic breast disease and women who drank over 500 mg/day had a 2.3-fold increase in the odds of developing cysts. Src.

Caffeine could cause incontinence. A study out of the University of Alabama showed that women who consume a lot of caffeine are 70% more likely to develop incontinence. Src.

Caffeine may cause insomnia. Caffeine in a person’s system at bedtime can mimic the symptoms of insomnia. Src.
Caffeine can cause indigestion. People who consume caffeinated beverages often report an upset stomach or indigestion. This mainly occurs when the beverages are consumed on an empty stomach. Src.

Caffeine can cause headaches. While occasional doses of caffeine can relieve headache symptoms, the overuse of caffeine can cause headaches and lead to migraines. Src.
Caffeine could reduce fertility in women. A study from The University of Nevada School of Medicine showed that caffeine can reduce a woman’s chances of becoming pregnant by about 27%. Src.

Caffeine and Miscarriage Risk: In a recent study, both men and women who consumed at least two caffeinated beverages a day during the weeks prior to conception slightly increased the risks of a miscarriage. Src.

Caffeine may not be healthy for type 2 diabetics. A study conducted by the American Diabetes Association showed that caffeine impaired glucose metabolism in those with type 2 diabetes. Src.

Caffeine Overdose. While overdose is rare, it can lead to many adverse symptoms including death, especially in those with underlying medical conditions. Some have a lower tolerance for caffeine than others. Src.

Caffeine Allergies. Some people have over-sensitivity to the caffeine molecule, which causes allergic-like reactions in the body such as hives and pain. Although not a true allergy, many report very negative symptoms after consuming even the smallest amounts. Src.

Caffeine causes more forceful heart contractions. A recent study showed that immediately after energy drink consumption the heart produced more forceful contractions. It is unclear if this has any long-term health implications except for those with known health conditions. Src.

Worse Menopause Symptoms. A recent study published in The Journal of The North American Menopause Society showed that menopausal women who consumed caffeine had a greater degree of vasomotor symptoms. Src.

Caffeine consumption can lead to increased anxiety, depression and the need for anxiety medication. Src and Src. See also our article as to why caffeine causes anxiety and panic attacks.

Caffeine increases the amount of sugary beverages consumed by people, which contributes to obesity and diabetes. Src.

Caffeine inhibits collagen production in the skin. This effect is dose-dependent but really heavy caffeine consumers should be aware. The Study.

Caffeine interferes with ossification and could also lead to greater risk of bone fractures. This is dose dependent, but heavy caffeine consumers should take note. Study 1 (pdf) Study 2.

Caffeine Does Not Help With Prolonged Sleep Deprivation: This can lead to a false sense of security for those that have been sleep deprived for multiple days in a row and choose to get behind the wheel or do some other focus required task, thinking that as long as they have caffeine, they’ll be able to perform. Researchers from the American Academy of Sleep Medicine came to this conclusion after studying caffeine’s effects on their sleep-deprived test subjects. Here’s the study in detail.

Caffeine May Impair Hearing Loss Recovery: For guinea pigs exposed to excessive levels of noise, caffeine was shown to delay the rate at which the guinea pigs recovered from noise-induced hearing loss. Here are the results of a recent study that investigated the problem. A correlation to humans is believed to exist but more research will be needed.

After hearing that I am glad that I no longer drink it. Thank you for enlightening me.

LlcoolJ · Jun 22, 2018

dingodan said:
Actually the available evidence doesn't support that.

- The National Academy of Sciences

http://www.drugpolicy.org/does-marijuana-legalization-lead-increased-use

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...izing-marijuana-increase-its-use-probably-not

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/miron/files/decrim_update_2007.pdf

That's what I was trying to say but in a thicko way. Chapeau sir.

dingodan · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
I haven't heard of any negatives to drinking coffee.

Caffine has a pretty poor health profile.

Putting the negative health effects aside, even in the measures commonly used to measure drugs like addiction potential and withdrawl symptoms, it's worse than Cannabis.

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

dingodan said:

Are you calling for support to make coffee illegal?

I do hear of people saying they can't get going in the morning without a cup.

BadFish · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
Yes I would totally agree. I don't drink coffee because it make me feel strange. As a result I stopped enjoying it.I did joke in an earlier post coffee is dangerous. Its great to have information so people can make their own choices.

Indeed, and if you transfer the same logic to cannabis: This is why i think it would be a great idea to control cannabis use and make sure people knew what they were taking, how strong it is and its likely effects. This is not what happens with prohibition but it would be a big part of legally buying cannabis.

BadFish · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
Are you calling for support to make coffee illegal?

I do hear of people saying they can't get going in the morning without a cup.

The point was that the division of drugs into legal and illegal is scattergun at best and lacks any real logic or joined up thinking. Once one starts to investigate a little it becomes clear that the division of recreational drugs is flawed and there is little logical reason that cannabis should be lumped in with dangerous drugs like Heroin and Ice when it is arguably not as bad for people (and society) as 'okay' drugs like alcohol, caffeine and nicotine. Our divisions and definitions of good drugs and bad drugs needs some rethinking.

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

BadFish said:
Indeed, and if you transfer the same logic to cannabis: This is why i think it would be a great idea to control cannabis use and make sure people knew what they were taking, how strong it is and its likely effects. This is not what happens with prohibition but it would be a big part of legally buying cannabis.

Legalising it won't stop criminals growing stronger versions. Teenagers will still want to get it and will not be legally allowed to buy it. It won't stop the dangers that already exist and so problems will persist.

Kalimantan Gull · Jun 22, 2018

Triggaaar said:
It depends on the numbers. If peanuts were killing half the people that took them, yes, they should be made illegal, and we should do our best to wipe out out the plant altogether. Just because something is naturally occurring doesn't make it ok.

OK, but you're not making a compelling argument for making cannabis illegal here.

I certainly think the health risks should be studied further, but that takes a long time (particularly when talking about the long term health affects).

true of everything, but cannabis use has been around for a very long time indeed, as has tobacco, alcohol, etc. There are a lot of prescription drugs that have been around for a much shorter period of time, so again its not a compelling argument against marijuana

So if someone was addicted to heroin, how would you have them get their fix?

Its not an easy one to answer I agree. I'm sure an answer like 'with a prescription at a pharmacy' won't go down too well. But I think you'd save more lives that way.

dingodan · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
Legalising it won't stop criminals growing stronger versions. Teenagers will still want to get it and will not be legally allowed to buy it. It won't stop the dangers that already exist and so problems will persist.

Have you ever seen a street dealer for alcohol?

BadFish · Jun 22, 2018

btnbelle said:
Legalising it won't stop criminals growing stronger versions. Teenagers will still want to get it and will not be legally allowed to buy it. It won't stop the dangers that already exist and so problems will persist.

As far as i have read this is not the evidence from countries that have tried it.

daveinprague · Jun 22, 2018

BadFish said:
As far as i have read this is not the evidence from countries that have tried it.

As I said earlier. I lived in Holland for a long time, and most of the people in the coffeeshops were foreigners, and tourists. Dutch youth have a street cred thing going on by not smoking it. Always used to see them just playing fussball, pool, and drinking

daveinprague · Jun 22, 2018

Its illegal here. More young people smoke here than anywhere else in Europe. Having said that, the police seem fairly indifferent to it. I rolled a joint in a friends bar, and lit it, and the guy at the bar next to me pulled his police badge on me. Asked him if he was going to arrest me, and he said no, but can you put it out, as im inhaling it, and I could fail a medical. Never heard a better reason for me to put a joint out tbh.

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

dingodan said:
Have you ever seen a street dealer for alcohol?

Not lately. My parents and Granddad used to make wine at home though.

Before supermarkets stocked alcohol, the problems were better controlled as it could only be bought in an off license or pub. The availability combined with the price drop that came about when we had free movement of goods has bought worsened many of the problem society has today with it.

Watch out.... Its a matter of time that after Brexit, the government will increase tax on alcohol again.

btnbelle · Jun 22, 2018

BadFish said:
As far as i have read this is not the evidence from countries that have tried it.

We have a different culture. British teenagers will still want to smoke it.

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