[Football] "Hughton Out" on Radio 5 Live

Cheshire Cat said:

Purely hypothetically.

If we nose dive into danger, ultimately crashing and burning, do we try someone else, or retain Hughton as the best person to launch a potential promotion bid next season?

Too early to panic now anyway. Which teams are definitely worse than us?

Slightly concerned of Cheshire.

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To easiest plan to be safe this season is :

Beat Cardiff home and away
Beat Huddersfield home and away
Beat Fulham away
Beat Southampton home
Beat Newcastle home

Of course that won't all happen, but it illustrates how survival is still very much achievable, and how it is too early to worry about relegation just yet.

Let's chalk off 3 more points from the target on Saturday.

bn9 bha said:

I was listening to the call and thinking- embarrassment.

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I know we had the Mike Bailey thread last week, but whilst we never had phone-in’s and social media, this type of thing is a bit deja-vu ish.......

Whilst a very, very small minority, I would suggest people need to reflect and take stock of where we are.


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Bold Seagull said:

It’s this kind of lack of context I don’t get!? We were fortunate to steer clear of injuries last year and our signings settled quickly. I don’t remember our style being better though, it’s largely the same, players themselves are struggling for confidence and form. Our style is getting the best from our players because it’s not style that is preventing us attacking more, it’s quality in the final third. In our defensive third we are as strong as any team, so to be where we are IS getting the best from them. Hughton hasn’t a wand to make Jahanbahsk, Izzy, March in particular world beaters over night, or Locadia come good, but anyone can see they’re struggling and not through style, through confidence, match sharpness, settling in, form, we just have to trust they’ll come good.

No team goes through a season playing in form and with style for the duration, it all ebbs and flows, just when you are struggling if you pick up points then it should be the sign of a very good team.

We’re eating at the top table where even middle of the road sides spend £100m+ in a single transfer window. Need to show a bit more bottle than some fans are managing.

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I can't quite tell whether you're critiquing my post of further enhancing it? This has nothing to do with bottle for me personally though. I'm not saying sack him personally, but I do think ALL fans have a right to like or dislike a manager and/or his style of play without being roundly criticised for feeling that way about such things.

For example, I've never personally enjoyed his style of football. You can go back to posts I made when we were in the Championship regarding this to back that up. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing which has been genuinely excellent and has led to continual progress (although stylistically I think we've stagnated this year, potentially due to injuries, as you suggest, but I think it's part of a larger tactical shift as he's purposefully not trying to make the same mistakes he made at Norwich where he tried to shift the style too quickly in his second season up). I actually think we have players that are more than capable of playing a more attacking brand of football - CH simply does not set them up to do this. That's a choice. It isn't one I'm personally a fan of, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing.

And going back to the 5Live caller, this is where I think he seems to be confused or misled (although maybe he does just genuinely think CH should be sacked). He has quite valid points about our style under CH (and I do think it's a stylistic choice that isn't solely down to injuries as stated above), but he seems to believe that also means CH hasn't been successful with us and consequently deserves the sack. This latter part is where I totally disagree with the caller as I think our results have generally been above expectations in this league.

However, there will likely come a point where we stagnate with CH as our manager. That happens to most managers. For me we're no where even close to this, but it will happen eventually.

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I can't quite tell whether you're critiquing my post of further enhancing it? This has nothing to do with bottle for me personally though. I'm not saying sack him personally, but I do think ALL fans have a right to like or dislike a manager and/or his style of play without being roundly criticised for feeling that way about such things.

For example, I've never personally enjoyed his style of football. You can go back to posts I made when we were in the Championship regarding this to back that up. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing which has been genuinely excellent and has led to continual progress (although stylistically I think we've stagnated this year, potentially due to injuries, as you suggest, but I think it's part of a larger tactical shift as he's purposefully not trying to make the same mistakes he made at Norwich where he tried to shift the style too quickly in his second season up). I actually think we have players that are more than capable of playing a more attacking brand of football - CH simply does not set them up to do this. That's a choice. It isn't one I'm personally a fan of, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing.

And going back to the 5Live caller, this is where I think he seems to be confused or misled (although maybe he does just genuinely think CH should be sacked). He has quite valid points about our style under CH (and I do think it's a stylistic choice that isn't solely down to injuries as stated above), but he seems to believe that also means CH hasn't been successful with us and consequently deserves the sack. This latter part is where I totally disagree with the caller as I think our results have generally been above expectations in this league.

However, there will likely come a point where we stagnate with CH as our manager. That happens to most managers. For me we're no where even close to this, but it will happen eventually.

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You're giving the caller too much credit. He is revelling in his notoriety, owning up to it all over Twitter.

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I can't quite tell whether you're critiquing my post of further enhancing it? This has nothing to do with bottle for me personally though. I'm not saying sack him personally, but I do think ALL fans have a right to like or dislike a manager and/or his style of play without being roundly criticised for feeling that way about such things.

For example, I've never personally enjoyed his style of football. You can go back to posts I made when we were in the Championship regarding this to back that up. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing which has been genuinely excellent and has led to continual progress (although stylistically I think we've stagnated this year, potentially due to injuries, as you suggest, but I think it's part of a larger tactical shift as he's purposefully not trying to make the same mistakes he made at Norwich where he tried to shift the style too quickly in his second season up). I actually think we have players that are more than capable of playing a more attacking brand of football - CH simply does not set them up to do this. That's a choice. It isn't one I'm personally a fan of, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing.

And going back to the 5Live caller, this is where I think he seems to be confused or misled (although maybe he does just genuinely think CH should be sacked). He has quite valid points about our style under CH (and I do think it's a stylistic choice that isn't solely down to injuries as stated above), but he seems to believe that also means CH hasn't been successful with us and consequently deserves the sack. This latter part is where I totally disagree with the caller as I think our results have generally been above expectations in this league.

However, there will likely come a point where we stagnate with CH as our manager. That happens to most managers. For me we're no where even close to this, but it will happen eventually.

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Good post. I'm not sure it really matters what he meant, once the herd gets going he's dead meat

If we become an established premier league team, there will come a time when a lot of fans start to demand a more exciting style of football. Is hughton able to deliver it? We are a fair way off that yet imo.calling for his head is way off the mark. Each to their own though.

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I can't quite tell whether you're critiquing my post of further enhancing it? This has nothing to do with bottle for me personally though. I'm not saying sack him personally, but I do think ALL fans have a right to like or dislike a manager and/or his style of play without being roundly criticised for feeling that way about such things.

For example, I've never personally enjoyed his style of football. You can go back to posts I made when we were in the Championship regarding this to back that up. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing which has been genuinely excellent and has led to continual progress (although stylistically I think we've stagnated this year, potentially due to injuries, as you suggest, but I think it's part of a larger tactical shift as he's purposefully not trying to make the same mistakes he made at Norwich where he tried to shift the style too quickly in his second season up). I actually think we have players that are more than capable of playing a more attacking brand of football - CH simply does not set them up to do this. That's a choice. It isn't one I'm personally a fan of, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the job he's doing.

And going back to the 5Live caller, this is where I think he seems to be confused or misled (although maybe he does just genuinely think CH should be sacked). He has quite valid points about our style under CH (and I do think it's a stylistic choice that isn't solely down to injuries as stated above), but he seems to believe that also means CH hasn't been successful with us and consequently deserves the sack. This latter part is where I totally disagree with the caller as I think our results have generally been above expectations in this league.

However, there will likely come a point where we stagnate with CH as our manager. That happens to most managers. For me we're no where even close to this, but it will happen eventually.

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The style debate might be a good one, what was it about 146 goals over 2 seasons you didn’t like? We’ve seen distinct ways of playing over the past decade, I loved us under Gus too but feel Hughton has been more attacking and direct than Gus was. Thing about Hughton for me is he plays to his team’s strengths, at present that is defensively, but we’ve already seen this season that isn’t always the case, and last season the same happened over the course of the year.

Huddersfield and Fulham both play this brand of attacking football, committing players high up the pitch, high press, it’s not always the answer that fans think. BTW I don’t think CH is devoid of criticism, would love us to be more flowing and attacking but I see the pragmatism of the approach, and also loved the last 3 seasons, I honestly don’t know what you’ve enjoyed in your history of watching us if you haven’t enjoyed Hughton’s team and style over his tenure! :crazy:

Thunder Bolt said:

You're giving the caller too much credit. He is revelling in his notoriety, owning up to it all over Twitter.

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He is not 'revelling in his notoriety'. Nor is he owning up to it 'All over twitter'. He is responding to people like you who jump on somebody because their opinion differs from yours.

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Any manager who doesn't encourage the cringeworthy "lump it up the field and see where it gets us" that we suffered years of is alright by me...we've had our fair share of fans trying to make a name for themselves...this one is no different...flipping embarrassing when it happens though...

piersa said:

If we become an established premier league team, there will come a time when a lot of fans start to demand a more exciting style of football. Is hughton able to deliver it? We are a fair way off that yet imo.calling for his head is way off the mark. Each to their own though.

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I agree with this. We are 2 or 3 seasons away from demanding a more exciting style. I think that the way we played in the Championship shows Chris could deliver it.

Boroseagull said:

Every club has an idiot or two - there are obviously no exceptions.

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The majority of them are on the ' Brexit ' thread. The haven for the desperate, ill-informed, uninformed, angry, brain-washed, self-interested, arrogant and intolerant.

Mo Gosfield said:

The majority of them are on the ' Brexit ' thread. The haven for the desperate, ill-informed, uninformed, angry, brain-washed, self-interested, arrogant and intolerant.

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Aww...I dont think you should be so hard on yourself

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I thought there was some truth in what he said re our style. In this regard we've gone backwards this year, and that's the worry.

I just think he confused not being happy with our style and not being happy with results. Our style is awful at times (and doesn't get the best from our players). But our results, at this stage, are above expectations so chat of sacking him is massively premature and really shouldn't happen until bad results are matching bad performances consistently.

But CH isn't above the sack either. He's done a great job so far, but football is what it is and there will come a time when he will leave our club, either through being pushed or leaving voluntarily.

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Obviously..but not now which is what the original point was about

Mo Gosfield said:

The majority of them are on the ' Brexit ' thread. The haven for the desperate, ill-informed, uninformed, angry, brain-washed, self-interested, arrogant and intolerant.

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They didn't have to vote remain.

Mo Gosfield said:

The majority of them are on the ' Brexit ' thread. The haven for the desperate, ill-informed, uninformed, angry, brain-washed, self-interested, arrogant and intolerant.

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No stereotyping there then.

LamieRobertson said:

Aww...I dont think you be so hard on yourself

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Thankfully I had the sense to retire from that thread some time ago and leave it to those who shun sensible debate in favour of open and unashamed rudeness to anyone with a different opinion to themselves.

Mo Gosfield said:

Thankfully I had the sense to retire from that thread some time ago and leave it to those who shun sensible debate in favour of open and unashamed rudeness to anyone with a different opinion to themselves.

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Clearly, wanting Hughton out, or asking whether it's time for him to step aside because you don't have the balls to stand up and say that's what you actually want, is ridiculous. But then I think wanting to get rid of the manager that has kept you in the top four for 20 of the last 22 years while winning titles and FA/League cups is ridiculous, but Arsenal fans got their way. Success (however it is defined) can get boring if it is the same every year. Football is littered with examples of teams who are achieving something year after year, and the fans growing to expect more. Stoke, West Ham, Charlton, Ipswich as well as previously mentioned Arsenal are examples that spring to mind.

If Hughton keeps just about keeping us in the premier league, more and more fans will get bored (almost regardless of the quality of the football). It'll either be 'too close, we need someone who isn't going to have us looking over our shoulders as we approach May' or it'll be 'we're standing still, we've established in the Premier league, now we need someone to help us push on to the next level/play more attractive football' and that feeling will grow.

I'd like to think Bloom is quite sensible an owner, and reluctant to fire people (just look at Hyypia's reign) so Hughton would probably stay longer with us than some other owners, but they would both will certainly come under a lot of fan pressure. Maybe if it happens we'll get lucky and replace our Arsene with an Unai. Or maybe we'll replace our Curbishley with a Dowie, our McCarthy with a Hurst. But anyone who thinks simply staying up will be enough to keep the fans happy with Hughton in the job indefinitely are being naive.


As for Hughton's style of play I think it is often frustrating. I certainly see us stop our counter attacks and seemingly wait for our opponents to get back into position too much. It was something that happened in the championship, too. It happens too frequently, over too much of his time with us to not point to Hughton on it. He's had time to sort it out, but hasn't. I think it's perfectly valid to complain about it, but don't think it's a reason to get rid of Hughton.

I think some of the arguments against attacking more are quite weak. Sure, we've conceded goals when attacking. Every team does. We've also managed to attack and not concede. Quite a lot. Attacking doesn't automatically mean you will concede or get cut open. It's about balance. Just because a fan wants to see more attacking doesn't mean they don't want us to defend, or not remember while attacking that there is the potential for our opponents to counter and to play accordingly.

Whenever this discussion comes up I think of our game v Arsenal last season, and our home games v Man Utd. We were quite attacking and positive and came away with 9/9 points. If we can play attacking positive football against them and come away with a win, why can't we do that v teams outside the top 6? If we can attack Man Utd without getting torn apart on the counter, why can't we do that against other teams?

I think we also need to remember that a team that wants to attack needs to be able to pass the ball to each other consistently, and we are struggling to do that at the moment. For whatever reason, things aren't clicking, so I think the idea we're not trying to attack is probably wrong. It's a needs must kind of thing. We're struggling for form and we're playing against teams that are able to ping the ball around at the moment pushing us back. When we get our passing game back on track, I think we'll see more attacking play.

andy1980 said:

I agree with this. We are 2 or 3 seasons away from demanding a more exciting style. I think that the way we played in the Championship shows Chris could deliver it.

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Totally agree with this. CH is being pragmatic and doing what TB is asking, namely doing what it takes to stay in this division. The longer we stay the more income we receive. The more income we get the more we can invest in more tactical, expansive players. This whole issue is moot really as TB isn't going to do anything to risk PL survival.

Thunder Bolt said:

You're giving the caller too much credit. He is revelling in his notoriety, owning up to it all over Twitter.

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I am not normally a 'black and white' sort of bloke but when it comes to managers, wives and gods, there is no middle ground. Either you are in 100% or out 100%. And middle ground leads to the rot setting in (the slow decline of the club with an inevitable flounce or sacking; affairs and divorce; feeble lip service, guilt and depression).

Anyway, this bloke just sounds like a rotter to me.