[Football] North Stand Scudmore Protest

Gritt23 · Nov 26, 2018

El Presidente said:
The clubs weren’t asked for more money though. The story was leaked by a club executive who doesn’t like Scudamore or Bruce Buck to a friendly journalist who wrote up the story to generate clicks and outrage.

Came out of "central funds" though, and that means there is less for the clubs. Whether the clubs wrote a cheque, or get it docked out of the next cheque they receive .... same diiference.

The added shocker for me was the reaction of clubs (including ours) has been to criticise the fans for being outraged. "Oy, you lot, just pipe down. Keep paying into the trough, but pipe down, your opinion doesn't matter." PR own goals all round.

Gritt23 · Nov 26, 2018

El Presidente said:
It raises an interesting question. What/who is the average fan in the Premier League?

Aging!

Everyone with snouts in the trough doesn't seem to notice that the only youngsters in the ground are there with parents. The teenagers who are getting into the "habit" of going to football week in, week out, rain or shine, top division or bottom are just not there anymore. Going with dad is not the same as getting your group of friends who you meet up with at the game each week, and that becomes the staple part of your weekend. Of the friends I used to go with as a teenager, virtually all are still going, but their kids have either not got into the same habit, or are their with dad, and that isn't the same bond you're building up.

Spoilt. We're also getting a lot of spoilt fans who have been drawn purely by the success, and are not there due to a deep love for the club. All the time going to "Premier League - best League in the WORLD - football" is the draw, then it wins out over other options, but once they realise it's the Emporer 's New Clothes, and actually a lot of the football is shite because 12 clubs a year play purely to stay up, and limit their attacking options accordingly, then I think they drift away. Look at clubs that have come up and stayed here a while, it becomes increasingly difficult to fill the ground, and if they go down, the attendances plummet.

MattBackHome · Nov 26, 2018

LlcoolJ said:
Lots of nonsense & shouting and no interest in facts.

NSC has been exactly this way since the 90's. I only come back for the nonsense, the shouting and the utter bollocks.

Bry Nylon · Nov 26, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Aging!

Everyone with snouts in the trough doesn't seem to notice that the only youngsters in the ground are there with parents. The teenagers who are getting into the "habit" of going to football week in, week out, rain or shine, top division or bottom are just not there anymore. Going with dad is not the same as getting your group of friends who you meet up with at the game each week, and that becomes the staple part of your weekend. Of the friends I used to go with as a teenager, virtually all are still going, but their kids have either not got into the same habit, or are their with dad, and that isn't the same bond you're building up.

Very much this.
As I said earlier in the thread, I am going to start taking my 7-year old lad to Cambridge United.
Partly because if it becomes something he wants to do on a regular basis, it is financially sustainable whereas eight, nine or ten visits to the Amex as a non-STH just isn't feasible. And partly because if he 'gets into' going to football, I want him to be experience it how I did. Start going with your dad, then as you get older, find your group of match day mates and start going with them and then eventually travel up and down the country to away fixtures together etc. My 'rites of passage' at the Goldstone from West Stand with my dad (aged 7-8), to East Terrace with my dad (aged 9-14) and finally to North Stand with mates (aged 15+) were the best of times and I wouldn't change anything about it for the world.

Even if I could get STs for the Amex (which I can't), my son would be condemned to sit with his old man for ever and a day. Nice for me, but eventually boring for him and not how I want him to experience live football. By going to Cambridge we can start the whole traditional father and son 'going to football' cycle all over again and hopefully he will get as much out of it and love it as much as I did.

The point about the 'aging' supporter is interesting too. I don't know what the average ST 'churn' is, but I imagine it is relatively low, so the average age in the stadium will just go up and up and up. In time, the majority of the supporters in the stadium will be approaching or be beyond pensionable age. Of course, Steve Parish at Palace has attempted to address this issue at Selhurst by displacing long-standing STHs behind the goal in favour of a loose group of 300 or so lads who'll turn up and create a right old racket for 90-mins. The way he has gone about it isn’t the answer, but in a way – as someone who grew up watching live football pre-Premier League and all seater stadia etc - I can understand the issue he is attempting to address.

Mellotron · Nov 26, 2018

Dick Head said:
Some things money can’t buy. Football isn’t one: The Amex.

I still can't believe that banner. One of the weirdest things I've ever seen.

Nobby · Nov 26, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Aging!

Everyone with snouts in the trough doesn't seem to notice that the only youngsters in the ground are there with parents. The teenagers who are getting into the "habit" of going to football week in, week out, rain or shine, top division or bottom are just not there anymore. Going with dad is not the same as getting your group of friends who you meet up with at the game each week, and that becomes the staple part of your weekend. Of the friends I used to go with as a teenager, virtually all are still going, but their kids have either not got into the same habit, or are their with dad, and that isn't the same bond you're building up.

Spoilt. We're also getting a lot of spoilt fans who have been drawn purely by the success, and are not there due to a deep love for the club. All the time going to "Premier League - best League in the WORLD - football" is the draw, then it wins out over other options, but once they realise it's the Emporer 's New Clothes, and actually a lot of the football is shite because 12 clubs a year play purely to stay up, and limit their attacking options accordingly, then I think they drift away. Look at clubs that have come up and stayed here a while, it becomes increasingly difficult to fill the ground, and if they go down, the attendances plummet.

THIS

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Tim Over Whelmed · Nov 26, 2018

n1 gull said:
53 quid for a replica shirt is outrageous

Is it though, if you compare with other branded clothing? I'm always amazed when Mrs OW buys the lads a T Shirt, jumper, hoodie etc as to how much these brands charge and yet people still buy them.

Moshe Gariani · Nov 26, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Aging!

Everyone with snouts in the trough doesn't seem to notice that the only youngsters in the ground are there with parents. The teenagers who are getting into the "habit" of going to football week in, week out, rain or shine, top division or bottom are just not there anymore. Going with dad is not the same as getting your group of friends who you meet up with at the game each week, and that becomes the staple part of your weekend. Of the friends I used to go with as a teenager, virtually all are still going, but their kids have either not got into the same habit, or are their with dad, and that isn't the same bond you're building up.

Spoilt. We're also getting a lot of spoilt fans who have been drawn purely by the success, and are not there due to a deep love for the club. All the time going to "Premier League - best League in the WORLD - football" is the draw, then it wins out over other options, but once they realise it's the Emporer 's New Clothes, and actually a lot of the football is shite because 12 clubs a year play purely to stay up, and limit their attacking options accordingly, then I think they drift away. Look at clubs that have come up and stayed here a while, it becomes increasingly difficult to fill the ground, and if they go down, the attendances plummet.

From the BBC today...?

Young sports fans are driving strong growth in attendance at UK sports events, according to new research.

Around 74.8 million people are expected to buy tickets for professional sports events in 2018, according to digital sports marketing agency Two Circles.

That is up from 63 milion in 2012, the year of the London Olympics.

The number of millennials, those born between 1981 and 1996, attending sports events has increased from 16% of ticket-buyers in 2012 to 21% in 2018.

Two Circles says revenue from 2018 attendances will directly contribute £1.9bn to the UK leisure economy.

'Short attention spans'

Younger fans are drivers of the so-called experience economy, preferring to attend events that they can share with friends on social media.

"In a world of smartphones, on-demand TV and short attention spans, sport remains one of the few sources of 'Instagrammable' entertainment that we can experience with friends, family, or on our own," says Two Circles chief executive Gareth Balch.

"The sports rights-holders prospering most are those who have understood what their audiences - and increasingly younger audiences - want from a live experience, adapting their product where required to ensure fans return, or creating new events to grow their fan base."

Meanwhile, football remains the country's dominant game, accounting for two-thirds of all sport attendances, and driven by the continued appeal of England's Premier League.

Weststander · Nov 26, 2018

Moshe Gariani said:
From the BBC today...?

Young sports fans are driving strong growth in attendance at UK sports events, according to new research.

Around 74.8 million people are expected to buy tickets for professional sports events in 2018, according to digital sports marketing agency Two Circles.

That is up from 63 milion in 2012, the year of the London Olympics.

The number of millennials, those born between 1981 and 1996, attending sports events has increased from 16% of ticket-buyers in 2012 to 21% in 2018.

Two Circles says revenue from 2018 attendances will directly contribute £1.9bn to the UK leisure economy.

'Short attention spans'

Younger fans are drivers of the so-called experience economy, preferring to attend events that they can share with friends on social media.

"In a world of smartphones, on-demand TV and short attention spans, sport remains one of the few sources of 'Instagrammable' entertainment that we can experience with friends, family, or on our own," says Two Circles chief executive Gareth Balch.

"The sports rights-holders prospering most are those who have understood what their audiences - and increasingly younger audiences - want from a live experience, adapting their product where required to ensure fans return, or creating new events to grow their fan base."

Meanwhile, football remains the country's dominant game, accounting for two-thirds of all sport attendances, and driven by the continued appeal of England's Premier League.

Yes, but specifically regarding the PL, are children, teenagers, young adults getting to see their clubs play? Can they or their parents afford it?

Not just the lucky one where parents have good income, but from the ‘hoi polloi’?

Not so very long ago, watching the Albion was affordable for those on low incomes.

father_and_son · Nov 26, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Everyone with snouts in the trough doesn't seem to notice that the only youngsters in the ground are there with parents. The teenagers who are getting into the "habit" of going to football week in, week out, rain or shine, top division or bottom are just not there anymore. Going with dad is not the same as getting your group of friends who you meet up with at the game each week, and that becomes the staple part of your weekend. Of the friends I used to go with as a teenager, virtually all are still going, but their kids have either not got into the same habit, or are their with dad, and that isn't the same bond you're building up.

Bry Nylon said:
Start going with your dad, then as you get older, find your group of match day mates and start going with them and then eventually travel up and down the country to away fixtures together etc. My 'rites of passage' at the Goldstone from West Stand with my dad (aged 7-8), to East Terrace with my dad (aged 9-14) and finally to North Stand with mates (aged 15+) were the best of times and I wouldn't change anything about it for the world.

'_and_son' has accompanied me for the past 7 seasons now and tbh, I reckon I have not much more than 1 more season after this one before he starts going with mates (he's 15). He already does the away trips with a group of friends and a "token dad" goes along to look out for them (and drive mostly!)

The thing for me is he spends all week pretty much in his room, coming out just for food, grunting instead of conversing... pretty much being a teenager. But on match days, he is animated & friendly. We talk, laugh, cry, swear... share experiences. It is literally the only time we connect. I know it's just a phase and he will become human again as soon as he turns 20, but at the moment, for entirely selfish reasons, he is stuck with me at football matches. [Oh... we are the two heads sticking up in the middle of the top sign!]

Charlies Shinpad · Nov 26, 2018

Me and my son were discussing this on Saturday and both my son's and me have been going together since the last year at The Goldstone when they were 8 and 9 years old
We miss the great away days such as Darlington and Rochdale as the fans up there were proper fans and not plastic like we are getting now.
I understand people coming along and jumping on the premiership bandwagon and it's brilliant to watch world class players against us but it's the fun days out we miss such as Rochdale and Preston, Bristol City and Burton.
They are the games which we had a great day out with proper fans home and away.
Now it seems everyone we see at away games we no longer recognise or they just sit there in their allocated seats and count it as a ground they have visited and don't join in the banter or abuse which is all part of the game

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Gritt23 · Nov 26, 2018

father_and_son said:
'_and_son' has accompanied me for the past 7 seasons now and tbh, I reckon I have not much more than 1 more season after this one before he starts going with mates (he's 15). He already does the away trips with a group of friends and a "token dad" goes along to look out for them (and drive mostly!)

The thing for me is he spends all week pretty much in his room, coming out just for food, grunting instead of conversing... pretty much being a teenager. But on match days, he is animated & friendly. We talk, laugh, cry, swear... share experiences. It is literally the only time we connect. I know it's just a phase and he will become human again as soon as he turns 20, but at the moment, for entirely selfish reasons, he is stuck with me at football matches. [Oh... we are the two heads sticking up in the middle of the top sign!]

Not saying it doesn't happen mate, but it's much more of a rarity that it was when we went as teenagers. Will he be able to afford his own season ticket when he gets to 18-20 and starts out in work, and a flat of his own? That is the other hurdle for the "next generation" of fans to get past. Or is he always at games courtesy of his old Dad renewing the season ticket next to him?

Another Berkshire Seagull · Nov 26, 2018

Charlies Shinpad said:
Me and my son were discussing this on Saturday and both my son's and me have been going together since the last year at The Goldstone when they were 8 and 9 years old
We miss the great away days such as Darlington and Rochdale as the fans up there were proper fans and not plastic like we are getting now.
I understand people coming along and jumping on the premiership bandwagon and it's brilliant to watch world class players against us but it's the fun days out we miss such as Rochdale and Preston, Bristol City and Burton.
They are the games which we had a great day out with proper fans home and away.
Now it seems everyone we see at away games we no longer recognise or they just sit there in their allocated seats and count it as a ground they have visited and don't join in the banter or abuse which is all part of the game

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Been going away regularly (pretty much every game) for nearly 25 years. Same old(er) faces are around. Those that regularly went to Darlo, Rochdale never gave up, we've just been joined by others (some of whom weren't born when I first started going). A larger community, new friends to meet and share experiences with.

I can't say nothing's changed however. Of course it has, modern day stadia, seats (allocated or otherwise), more women, children, families in attendance. Yes the game has changed, but for me it's for the better.

El Presidente · Nov 26, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Came out of "central funds" though, and that means there is less for the clubs. Whether the clubs wrote a cheque, or get it docked out of the next cheque they receive .... same diiference.

The added shocker for me was the reaction of clubs (including ours) has been to criticise the fans for being outraged. "Oy, you lot, just pipe down. Keep paying into the trough, but pipe down, your opinion doesn't matter." PR own goals all round.

If Scudamore went to a competitor there could be far less in the central pot for clubs though, which is why they made that particular decision. From the clubs' point of view it was an insurance policy, and the £83,000 is their annual premium.

In dealings with PB he's not criticising the fans, it's more to do with the media for twisting a story that has led to outrage on the terraces (or more appropriately, Twitter, message boards and phone in shows).

blue-shifted · Nov 26, 2018

Scudamore deserves all the stick he gets. This game we all love used to make money just to exist. It now exists to make money. This is now a cultural acceptance which has developed on his watch and is now so normal, I've no doubt dozens on here will look to defend it.

I'm not impressed with the club on this either. I could accept high ticket prices, when the costs of Withdean were high, when we were trying to get the funding for Falmer together and when we weren't earning the TV money we are now whilst playing in the Championship.

There's no justification at all for the ticket prices now (other than the fact that there is a waiting list and they know people will pay). What we've done is price out the teenagers and ordinary people with families and replace them with well off, middle aged Arsenal and Spurs fans who live locally and want to be in the Albion bandwagon. You could say it's fine and there's plenty of them, so plenty of money to be had, but there's problems with this. Firstly, the atmosphere is terrible and it's getting worse every year. Secondly, football is cyclical. Yes, at the moment we're good and we have (some) momentum. There's going to be a time when this stops being the case, (we had a brief taste under Hyppia). How long will Barbers "income stream" carry on turning up for when we're on our next mid 90's style downturn and have been for years on end.

Running a football club is more than just annual balance sheets it's about looking after the long term and nurturing the supporter base and relationship with all the community, not just the well off. But career Chief Exec's don't think like that. They want short term examples for their CV's. I'm not comfortable with the clubs approach on ticket pricing.

Herr Tubthumper · Nov 26, 2018

timbha said:
Polite question - are you in 1901?

Yes.

nickbrighton · Nov 26, 2018

Bry Nylon said:
I have been looking into bringing my children to a few individual games as my son (7) has started saying he wants to go to watch some professional games and my daughter (9) has said she would like to come along also.

I may have got this wrong, but to apply for tickets we will first require Bronze Membership for me, plus x2 Junior Seagulls memberships.

One game I had been considering was the Everton game on 29th December. The tickets would cost £98 plus the memberships (admittedly a 'one-off' cost every season) would add another £44. That would make access to this game alone an eyewatering £142.

For that reason, I'm out

We're going to Cambridge United instead

i looked at buying tickets to see Rocky Horror Show at the Theatre Royal for some of my family instead of presents. Tickets were between £50-65. for about 2 hours of entertainment. Actually quite similar to the cost of "one off" tickets to the Albion.

BNthree · Nov 26, 2018

Comparing to cost of tickets to a top show or band seems odd to me as you don't go to see that show 19 times (or more) in a year do you? It's expensive partly as it is a rarity or a treat. Football should be an everyday thing and priced as such.

El Presidente · Nov 26, 2018

blue-shifted said:
Scudamore deserves all the stick he gets. This game we all love used to make money just to exist. It now exists to make money. This is now a cultural acceptance which has developed on his watch and is now so normal, I've no doubt dozens on here will look to defend it.

I'm not impressed with the club on this either. I could accept high ticket prices, when the costs of Withdean were high, when we were trying to get the funding for Falmer together and when we weren't earning the TV money we are now whilst playing in the Championship.

There's no justification at all for the ticket prices now (other than the fact that there is a waiting list and they know people will pay). What we've done is price out the teenagers and ordinary people with families and replace them with well off, middle aged Arsenal and Spurs fans who live locally and want to be in the Albion bandwagon. You could say it's fine and there's plenty of them, so plenty of money to be had, but there's problems with this. Firstly, the atmosphere is terrible and it's getting worse every year. Secondly, football is cyclical. Yes, at the moment we're good and we have (some) momentum. There's going to be a time when this stops being the case, (we had a brief taste under Hyppia). How long will Barbers "income stream" carry on turning up for when we're on our next mid 90's style downturn and have been for years on end.

Running a football club is more than just annual balance sheets it's about looking after the long term and nurturing the supporter base and relationship with all the community, not just the well off. But career Chief Exec's don't think like that. They want short term examples for their CV's. I'm not comfortable with the clubs approach on ticket pricing.

The club lost £110 million in six seasons in the Championship, it would have lost more with lower ticket prices. It has the fifth lowest playing budget in the Premier League, with Palace playing their players on average £20,000 a week more than we do.

ST prices are reasonable, not cheap, but you get more at the Amex in terms of comfort and facilities than offered by other clubs. One off tickets are similar, if the club is relegated then ticket prices would have to reflect the lower demand.

Brighton Operating Losses Championship.JPG

Thunder Bolt · Nov 26, 2018

BNthree said:
Comparing to cost of tickets to a top show or band seems odd to me as you don't go to see that show 19 times (or more) in a year do you? It's expensive partly as it is a rarity or a treat. Football should be an everyday thing and priced as such.

I couldn't afford to go every day!

Seriously though, as season ticket holders, it is cheaper for us, and easier with the interest free direct debit.

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