More sense from Mr Naylor

virtual22 · Oct 27, 2014

Isn't the sign of a good manager one that adapts the system and the tactics to the players that they have available at the time? Constantly trying to play a system that does not suit your personnel, no matter which way you go about it just isn't going to happen. I appreciate that Sami has a style and a system that he wants to play but he can build up to this over a period of transfer windows. At the moment he is short of the players he needs so imo he should focus on getting as much out of the players as he can, this means playing a system they can cope with.

His stubbornness to change and see the reality of the situation is what's frustrating me the most. Moaning after each game we are missing chances, we need new players, we need this and that means we are going to struggle to win next time out, it's doesn't resolve anything or change anything.

westy · Oct 27, 2014

virtual22 said:
Isn't the sign of a good manager one that adapts the system and the tactics to the players that they have available at the time? Constantly trying to play a system that does not suit your personnel, no matter which way you go about it just isn't going to happen. I appreciate that Sami has a style and a system that he wants to play but he can build up to this over a period of transfer windows. At the moment he is short of the players he needs so imo he should focus on getting as much out of the players as he can, this means playing a system they can cope with.

His stubbornness to change and see the reality of the situation is what's frustrating me the most. Moaning after each game we are missing chances, we need new players, we need this and that means we are going to struggle to win next time out, it's doesn't resolve anything or change anything.

"Constantly trying to play a system that does not suit your personnel, no matter which way you go about it just isn't going to happen"

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Eggman · Oct 27, 2014

brightonrock said:
Although usually a glass half full kind of fan, more than willing to give players and managers time rather than slating and writing them off in the first half dozen games, I just can't see how Hyppia can hold on much longer. IMO he has to return 5 pts from the next 3 league games to be able to justify holding on beyond the international break.

A point away at Bournemouth would be a great result in the firm they're in, and with Wigan struggling we simply have to turn them over. Blackburn are flirting with the playoffs so even at home I'd accept a point there.

The problem for me is there don't seem to be any green shoots. If we were playing well but individual mistakes were costing us, or we were losing to worldy 30 yarders or getting unlucky with deflected cross-shots, I'd be able to defend the system. The problem is we don't cross, we don't get to the byline for a cutback and we don't play through balls for Baldock/CMS/Colunga to latch onto. We pass the ball sideways 35 yards from goal, get it wide to a wing back and he checks back inside. Rinse and repeat. Then after a while, Gardner gets a bit of space and shoots over from 30 yards. I cannot for the life of me understand the plan. And worse than that, Hyypia stands cross-armed in the technical area for 75 minutes, then brings on Paddy for a defensive midfielder. Now we've got nobody to protect our centre halves on the counter, and our creative player is picking it up from Greer/Dunk 70 yards deeper than we want him to be, to try and cause some damage.

The concerning thing for me against Rotherham was that nobody wanted the ball. Stockdale would have it, want to give it to someone, and our 10 outfield players were walking away from him, shoulders slumped, heads down. They're trying to hide, and when you're low on form you have to redouble your effort, there's no room for passengers. If Hyypia, a Champions League winner, can't motivate players sufficiently, and refuses to change a system that CLEARLY isn't working, then regardless of my tendency to give the benefit of the doubt, it has to be time to pull the trigger.

A new man would need half a dozen games to get to know the squad and implement his system before the transfer window, by which point he can go out and bring in what he thinks we need. If we were to sleepwalk into December as we have through September & October, I'd begin to fear relegation.

Toe to toe?

KZNSeagull · Oct 27, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
I've touched on it before but after Oscar left he met with Andy Naylor and laid his cards on the table. He was adamant that the problem with the club was the recruitment methods and that the manager / coach had little dealings in it. He even stated it as his reason for going. Now I know TB has suggested Oscar chose to not participate but it seems strange that Gus hinted at the problem, Oscar stated it to AN and Sami has suggested extra players may be needed. Is the problem the club rather than the manager ? *** awaits to be flamed ***

I will suggest that the problem is money.

We are pretty sure that this was Gus's problem (the ceiling comment) and that we have been told by TB that Oscar gave the club a list of players in January, all of whom were either not available or not affordable. We have also heard stories that Oscar was given a list of 3 PL signings, all of whom were available and affordable but he declined them all for whatever reason.

We know that whilst the strategy of the club is to keep within FFP limits, we will always be at a disadvantage until such time that we find out whether FFP will have any effect on wages and other clubs spending habits. Whilst we can speculate that perhaps those in charge of recruitment could be more effective (and speculation is all we can go on), even if the recruitment process were different and the manager handled all transfers, the sign off on transfers will still land on TB's desk. The criteria for whether a player is affordable or not is therefore not going to change unless FFP has the desired effect.

We have 2 months before any FFP sanctions kick in. January could be a very interesting transfer window for many reasons.

Lower West Stander · Oct 27, 2014

virtual22 said:
Isn't the sign of a good manager one that adapts the system and the tactics to the players that they have available at the time? Constantly trying to play a system that does not suit your personnel, no matter which way you go about it just isn't going to happen. I appreciate that Sami has a style and a system that he wants to play but he can build up to this over a period of transfer windows. At the moment he is short of the players he needs so imo he should focus on getting as much out of the players as he can, this means playing a system they can cope with.

His stubbornness to change and see the reality of the situation is what's frustrating me the most. Moaning after each game we are missing chances, we need new players, we need this and that means we are going to struggle to win next time out, it's doesn't resolve anything or change anything.

You may very well be right - but I think its what Naylor says between the lines which is most interesting.

The implication behind the article is that there is a root problem at the club in the way players are recruited and this is what has caused the turnover of managers and current poor performance. Hyppia is a victim of this rather than the source of the problem.

I think this is a highly critical article by Naylor in which he is trying tell TB that he needs to get a grip because the policies just aren't working at the moment nor have they been for some time. I obviously have no idea if its true but Naylor has a better understanding of the workings of the club than I do and I find the implications quite worrying.

I was in the sack SH camp before I read this but now I'm not so sure.....

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Oct 27, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
I've touched on it before but after Oscar left he met with Andy Naylor and laid his cards on the table. He was adamant that the problem with the club was the recruitment methods and that the manager / coach had little dealings in it. He even stated it as his reason for going. Now I know TB has suggested Oscar chose to not participate but it seems strange that Gus hinted at the problem, Oscar stated it to AN and Sami has suggested extra players may be needed. Is the problem the club rather than the manager ? *** awaits to be flamed ***

Agree with that (and with Naylor's article) however even with the players at his disposal, we should be doing far better.

The tactics are a complete shambles, and that's down to Hyypia.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Oct 27, 2014

Mo Gosfield said:
The big question is whether Sami is capable of improvement and change. Some people aren't. So many think they can make it as a manager but they are simply not suited to it. Football history is riddled with big name players who have failed in the managerial game.
Just because he was an outstanding centre-half at the highest level doesn't guarantee a successful managerial career. World Cup winners like Moore and Charlton were truly inspirational on the field. They led by example. They didn't have the right attributes off it.
From what I've seen of him so far ( and I desperately want him to succeed ) he hasn't got the right attributes. He clearly lacks experience and is naive in the extreme. He doesn't appear to be able to rally the troops, to motivate and to man-manage. It is a tough learning curve and BHA can't afford to wait for him to gain experience at their expense.
Three games to the November break. Three games to save his job.

Pretty much this.

Especially the last line.

Curious Orange · Oct 27, 2014

Not a bad article by any means. I actually think that with the players at our disposal we should be winning more games than we are... and I think the problem is the system, yes the system is creating goal scoring opportunities, but too few of them as a proportion are for our strikers, and the system also leaves us vulnerable to counter-attacks because the fullbacks are so far forward all the time.

Using the full backs almost exclusively for width is not working as they are not providing quality balls for the strikers to prey on, we need them to be slightly more cautious, and give them the support of an actual winger playing as such to get the delivery sorted. It really isn't complicated.

Dan The Man · Oct 27, 2014

I agree with everything in the article, it all makes sense.

It points towards 4 areas and the combination of them that is contributing to a poor spell at the club, which many aren't used to. Fixing 1 or 2 might help but wont solve it all. 1) managers tactics, 2) quality of players, 3) recruitment policy and 4) the clubs non-stop easyjet approach to sell all the time, which is annoying esp when the team is not doing the business on the pitch. Take any turn at the crossroads and still potential problems.

The one area for me is the recruitment - it's just not right. The manager is given the players and doesnt seem to be able to have much influence on who is brought in. When Garcia came in, and again with Hypia, one of the first things I thought was about their connections. But other than Tex, its seems the manager doesn't have a say. I think the manager isnt happy about this but cant publicly critisise this process.

So what do we do....unless we bring in loans it has to be a change of tactics and that will only come from current manager or someone new....otherwise sooner or later I feel we'll be on the end of a big hammering.....

Surf's Up · Oct 27, 2014

There are two ways out of our current predicament IMO:

1. Hyypia changes his tactics and his whole Porsche to man man agent to suit the strengths of the squad we've got, I don't see this happening as he seems totally fixated on the current style and blames the players for not doing what they're told rather than accepting it's his tactics test that are wrong, or

2. We loan and buy players in who can play the way Hyypia wants. This will require the club to find a way around FFP ( eg dodgy naming rights deal for the stands, massive sponsorship deal a la Forest etc). This will not happen either. It's clear the club have been pulling in the reigns on team expenditure since Poyet's first season at the Amex and they're wedded to conforming to FFP irrespective of what everyone else in the division is doing.

So the only answer is for Hyypia to be sacked and replaced by someone who understands the division, is a good man manager, who won't require a massive and costly influx of players in January to get us up the table, is able to adjust their tactics to reflect the strengths of the current squad etc etc etc ........ and that person is ............ oh shit we're f**ked!

dejavuatbtn · Oct 27, 2014

kevtherev said:
No wonder he is not liked around the Amex.Talks far to much sense..Funny how people like Hart, Samarah and Naylor all can see the bleeding obvious, yet the club keep ploughing down this dead end street.

I fear the club see these 3 as being part of the old guard that doesn't represent them any more. They appear to be almost deliberately ignoring their opinions in some kind of egotistical way. Another good example of them losing touch with their fanbase.

drew · Oct 27, 2014

The problem as I see is that the manager cannot see that the system he wants to implement is not working and needs adapting, or changing completely. to suit the players he has in the squad, not some dream list of players that we can't afford. The club say the manager has the final say so on who we sign and also that Garcia arrived with a list of players that were either not available or were too expensive. I can understand managers getting frustrated when the club don't sign the players they suggest but how much of that is the unrealistic financial demands of those players or the clubs selling them?

Surf's Up · Oct 27, 2014

Before the NSC grammar police get me ... bloody predictive text - the first line of my point 1 above should read "... and his whole approach to man management"

drew · Oct 27, 2014

gibseagull said:
There are two ways out of our current predicament IMO:

1. Hyypia changes his tactics and his whole Porsche to man man agent to suit the strengths of the squad we've got, I don't see this happening as he seems totally fixated on the current style and blames the players for not doing what they're told rather than accepting it's his tactics test that are wrong, or

2. We loan and buy players in who can play the way Hyypia wants. This will require the club to find a way around FFP ( eg dodgy naming rights deal for the stands, massive sponsorship deal a la Forest etc). This will not happen either. It's clear the club have been pulling in the reigns on team expenditure since Poyet's first season at the Amex and they're wedded to conforming to FFP irrespective of what everyone else in the division is doing.

So the only answer is for Hyypia to be sacked and replaced by someone who understands the division, is a good man manager, who won't require a massive and costly influx of players in January to get us up the table, is able to adjust their tactics to reflect the strengths of the current squad etc etc etc ........ and that person is ............ oh shit we're f**ked!

Inclined to agree. In Hyppia's hands, either change tactics or leave.

drew · Oct 27, 2014

Dan The Man said:
4) the clubs non-stop easyjet approach to sell all the time, which is annoying esp when the team is not doing the business on the pitch. Take any turn at the crossroads and still potential problems.

What is this easyjet approach that you talk of? The players that left, Barnes, Bridcutt, Buckley and Ulloa all went to play in the Premier League. We didn't sign Ward for the very same reason. Apart from the prestige, the wages are a lot better and we can't compete. You might not like the fact but we are and probably will be for some time, a selling club. When we get the Academy up and running, hopefully we will rely on a few good sales to bring the money in, just like, for example, Southampton. Anyone who doesn't think we are a selling club is living on a different planet because virtually every club in the league is one. Probable exceptions are Man City and Chelsea!

perseus · Oct 27, 2014

Sami doesn't suffer Fools Gladly (just ignores them)

Mo Gosfield said:
The big question is whether Sami is capable of improvement and change. Some people aren't. So many think they can make it as a manager but they are simply not suited to it. Football history is riddled with big name players who have failed in the managerial game.
Just because he was an outstanding centre-half at the highest level doesn't guarantee a successful managerial career. World Cup winners like Moore and Charlton were truly inspirational on the field. They led by example. They didn't have the right attributes off it.
From what I've seen of him so far ( and I desperately want him to succeed ) he hasn't got the right attributes. He clearly lacks experience and is naive in the extreme. He doesn't appear to be able to rally the troops, to motivate and to man-manage. It is a tough learning curve and BHA can't afford to wait for him to gain experience at their expense.
Three games to the November break. Three games to save his job.

What system of character analysis do you use?

Ability to change potential: excellent
Experience: good
Inspiration/motivation: able to inspire players of higher quality, not able to inspire or to communicate with twats (makes him edgy with journos)
Naivety level: more apparent than real
Managerial type: easy going rather than authoritarian (more suitable nowadays)

Tactics: I don't like the 4-2-1-2-1 with advancing full-backs. Opposition just has to loft the ball into the gap left. But we have sold all our wingers.
I prefer 4-3-3 with one winger and one advancing full-back, or a rigid 4-4-2 away (which can get boring and rigid).

drew · Oct 27, 2014

perseus said:
What system of character analysis do you use?

Ability to change potential: excellent
Experience: good
Inspiration/motivation: able to inspire players of higher quality, not able to inspire or to communicate with twats (makes him edgy with journos)
Naivety level: more apparent than real
Managerial type: easy going rather than authoritarian (more suitable nowadays)

Tactics: I don't like the 4-2-1-2-1 with advancing full-backs. Opposition just has to loft the ball into the gap left. But we have sold all our wingers.
I prefer 4-3-3 with one winger and one advancing full-back, or a rigid 4-4-2 away (which can get boring and rigid).

Now I am cross, I must have missed Kaz being sold and us offloading March (despite his injury).

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