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Burke on his way out? Update: Gone



W

Working class pride

Banned
Feb 14, 2010
4,932
ants4t said:
I didn't say that. The summer didn't go to plan. We took too long to get Hyppia in, he didn't have time to build a squad and work with the recruitment team. Are the players brought in completely useless, even COG has got championship goals in a poor team. They were all a gamble perhaps but if Dale, Kemy (who got injured after his best ever game for us), March, Crofts all stayed fit, our midfield wouldn't look half as bad as it does now.

The problem for blood and public executions is sometimes just a tweak to the system, and learn from mistakes is needed. The recruitment team had a reshuffle and then Bennett and Bent come in, we will never know what would have happened if Hyppia took us into the transfer window.
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Hypia didnt buy the players it seems. Ive seen many a dreadful player for Brighton but rarely seen so much cash wasted. Yes the buys this summer were that bad and those responsible must be left in no doubt that they were. The manager must make the decisions to buy (with proper compliance over him as the contracts are worth millions). If he wants help then fine and statistics may help but I caution that as well. How many statistical ticks would a Worthington tick? Not many, but he was a footballer. Its the managers head on the block. I understand that Hypia was brought in during the summer but he should have known who he wanted, or he was just a coach. I would agree he didnt do a great job with what he had but it seems the perfect storm. Poor recruitment followed by poor manager. Result, from play offs to relegation zone.
 








pottert

pottert

New member
Aug 12, 2009
3,020
Peacehaven
Looking through every page of this thread there is no mention of FFP.

The club has brainwashed us over the last 12 months of its aim to hit its FFP targets.I think the club have been very naive in how much the clubs that didn't meet the targets would be punished.

Now we all know how week the punishments are we can now stop putting so much emphasis on meeting those targets especially as the losses a club can now make have now been raised.
 


Scoffers

Scoffers

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2004
6,844
Burgess Hill
Brighton Lines said:
Unless he was moved to a purely academy based role, where it appears he has wide respect.
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Thanks for this, you just made my evening, I now have an image in my head of Burke putting the cones out at the training ground and washing the kit afterwards :) :)
 




W

West Hoathly Seagull

Honorary Ruffian
Aug 26, 2003
3,540
Sharpthorne/SW11
HantsSeagull said:
i dont disagree. baldock was overpriced like all british players. i am not absolving DB of all the responsibility but its a lot harder to find quality players when you are bargain basement shopping.

however i would rather have a manager who had the majority input into recruitment. but even he will still need a budget.
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Wasn't it he who got rid of Zigor Aranalde? He presumably played a large part in scouting Ulloa, Spanish Dave, possibly Orlandi (although he of course was at Swansea), and one or two others. Okay, he may have been hand picked by Poyet, and perhaps this was why he was removed, but our supply of Spaniards, other than Colunga (who is too similar to Baldock for me) seems to have dried up. I think the only foreign signing under Oscar was Rodriguez, wasn't he? For me, a Chief Scout whom the manager trusts is the way to go. I don't know why Bloom is so fixed on this Continental system with a Head Coach rather than a manager. Seemingly it was one of the things that hacked Poyet off, and may have been a reason behind Oscar leaving.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,572
Scoffers said:
Thanks for this, you just made my evening, I now have an image in my head of Burke putting the cones out at the training ground and washing the kit afterwards :) :)
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Well, I was thinking he could drive the minibus as well.
 






C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
He is not tasked with identifying players. His scouts do that. They sit between them and decide who is the best fit in a certain position out of the players they have identified and prioritise them accordingly. Burke decides who he can afford and which positions to prioritise etc. For example with Ulloa and Barnes leaving it became patently obvious we were short up front. He would have gone after his top targets there before allocating all of the budget. The fact is that he failed to get the deals we initially wanted over the line. Burke failed to get the deals done (he may have spent too long doing this too) and was then forced to hastily build the squad from the loan market. There probably is much information which has been held back from the supporters but the buck ultimately stops with Burke in this department.
 


C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
West Hoathly Seagull said:
Wasn't it he who got rid of Zigor Aranalde? He presumably played a large part in scouting Ulloa, Spanish Dave, possibly Orlandi (although he of course was at Swansea), and one or two others. Okay, he may have been hand picked by Poyet, and perhaps this was why he was removed, but our supply of Spaniards, other than Colunga (who is too similar to Baldock for me) seems to have dried up. I think the only foreign signing under Oscar was Rodriguez, wasn't he? For me, a Chief Scout whom the manager trusts is the way to go. I don't know why Bloom is so fixed on this Continental system with a Head Coach rather than a manager. Seemingly it was one of the things that hacked Poyet off, and may have been a reason behind Oscar leaving.
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ZA left of his own accord before Poyet was dismissed as far as i understand.
 






W

West Hoathly Seagull

Honorary Ruffian
Aug 26, 2003
3,540
Sharpthorne/SW11
Cloughie said:
He is not tasked with identifying players. His scouts do that. They sit between them and decide who is the best fit in a certain position out of the players they have identified and prioritise them accordingly. Burke decides who he can afford and which positions to prioritise etc. For example with Ulloa and Barnes leaving it became patently obvious we were short up front. He would have gone after his top targets there before allocating all of the budget. The fact is that he failed to get the deals we initially wanted over the line. Burke failed to get the deals done (he may have spent too long doing this too) and was then forced to hastily build the squad from the loan market. There probably is much information which has been held back from the supporters but the buck ultimately stops with Burke in this department.
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So, if you have inside knowledge, who were our top targets? I have wondered for a while whether Colunga was an insurance policy in case we didn't get Baldock. Surely we weren't wanting both of those, as they are very similar to each other. Were we after Vossen? I thought he was way out of our reach at the time, though it was noticeable to me that both he and Patrick Bamford were on the bench for Middlesbrough at the Amex. I would have been very happy with either (or both of course).
 


C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
dwayne said:
He's identified some very good players

Adam Clayton
The orient winger tearing it up at Brentford
Stephen ward
Keith andrews
Dale Stephens
Leo ulloa
Lewis grabban

Its not his fault we can't keep hold or close any of the deals !!!

Its our tight wage structure that's killing us meaning we have to go to 3rd 4th choice options
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DB doesn't identify players. It's his job the negotiate the deals and to allocate the budget where he deems fit. This year we missed out on the majority of our primary targets and were forced into the loan market as a result. Whether they were underwhelmed by our new manager or not could have played a part (that conversation between manager and player is an important part of the recruitment process) but if players decide to go elsewhere it is ultimately his responsibility. He negotiates the contracts and decides who is worth what.
 


C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
West Hoathly Seagull said:
So, if you have inside knowledge, who were our top targets? I have wondered for a while whether Colunga was an insurance policy in case we didn't get Baldock. Surely we weren't wanting both of those, as they are very similar to each other. Were we after Vossen? I thought he was way out of our reach at the time, though it was noticeable to me that both he and Patrick Bamford were on the bench for Middlesbrough at the Amex. I would have been very happy with either (or both of course).
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I don't assert that I have 'inside knowledge'. Just a bit of an understanding of the recruitment process combined with the information that was readily available.

Karanka and Mourinho were close at Madrid so I imagine that any loan out of Chelsea into the championship would've been run through Middlesborough first. We were in for Vossen, as was well reported at the time. Clayton too.
 






Willy Dangle

Willy Dangle

New member
Aug 31, 2011
3,551
Cloughie said:
DB doesn't identify players. It's his job the negotiate the deals and to allocate the budget where he deems fit. This year we missed out on the majority of our primary targets and were forced into the loan market as a result. Whether they were underwhelmed by our new manager or not could have played a part (that conversation between manager and player is an important part of the recruitment process) but if players decide to go elsewhere it is ultimately his responsibility. He negotiates the contracts and decides who is worth what.
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Not totally true, DB does identity some players (not youth unless being released from other clubs) and directs the scouts in that direction. It is DB's job to have a good knowledge of the market and relationships with agents.
 


C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
Willy Dangle said:
Nottotally true, DB does identity some players and directs the scouts in that direction. It is DB's job to have a good knowledge of the market and relationships with agents.
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He's effectively in charge of the Scouts so yes he probably does send them to watch specific players/teams. This would be only on someone's recommendation (another "football person" or agent etc) or on the basis of statistics compiled on computer programs though. He wouldn't watch a game himself and made a judgement based on that for example. He has professionals for that.
 


Willy Dangle

Willy Dangle

New member
Aug 31, 2011
3,551
Cloughie said:
He's effectively in charge of the Scouts so yes he probably does send them to watch specific players/teams. This would be only on someone's recommendation (another "football person" or agent etc) or on the basis of statistics compiled on computer programs though. He wouldn't watch a game himself and made a judgement based on that for example. He has professionals for that.
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Exactly my point, there is science and structure behind the system. The downfall is mainly budget and having to negotiate with many a shark. People should have more faith in my opinion as too many other factors effected out summer spending.
 




C

Cloughie

New member
Jun 7, 2009
426
Willy Dangle said:
Exactly my point, there is science and structure behind the system. The downfall is mainly budget and having to negotiate with many a shark. People should have more faith in my opinion as too many other factors effected out summer spending.
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You're right. The club will have databases and databases full of players, their age, height, weight, position etc etc. if they want a like for like replacement they'll correlate the statistics to find a player as close to the one departing as possible. If not, they do things differently.

I'm not dismissing your point. I just have a different perspective on it. I view the budget much like salary cap space in the NFL where you spend more (wages and fee in this instance) on areas where there is a bigger need first (forwards in the summer). In the US they'd address this need and use the money left over to fill the spaces that need filling. That's what I believe happened. We then missed out on those targets (when willing to spend a bigger portion of the budget on them) and were then forced into loans.
 




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