UK net migration hits record high

Hastings gull · Oct 9, 2015

BadFish said:
You are never going to convince people who have such a narrow view of events that there is more to this issue that that which occurs on their patch of dirt. Like i said this thread will run and run with those who 'see' what is going on blaming more and more of their problems on people from somewhere else. All the while finding any flimsy reason to discredit anyone who disagrees with them ('you don't even live here' .... "wacist") and stifle debate so they can continue to indulge their agenda.

The usual pompous post -soon it will be back to the diatribe of the other week, and the one before that, when those who do not see things your way, were accused of lacking compassion, and then you have the nerve to say that others will discredit anyone! What a total hypocrite you are. You just cannot see the difference between "wacism" and worry over the effects of mass immigration. Your earlier post in fact inadvertently highlighted the problems of living so far away, when you felt it necessary to qualify that you read the same material "by and large". That is the point. You are restricted to reading material, and of course material which you know will confirm your bias, to say noting of the customary quoting of convenient figures,whereas others live here on a day to day basis -there is no substitute for this. You do not watch TV here, you do not read the letter pages here, you do not have relatives involved in the process,you don't have people telling you your dog is dirty, you do not have abuse when you let a lady go first - all these things, whilst in isolation seemingly minor, add up to a picture that all is not well. Of course, we should all integrate, and as the saying goes "love thy neighbour" but the reality is that this is not happening, and encouraging further immigration on such a huge scale, sadly, is likely to push communities further apart with its inevitable affect on social cohesion. Why you seem unable to comprehend this, (and accuse others of having a narrow view) is because your daily experiences are so different. That is not a criticism, as it is inevitable, so accept it.

Deleted member 22389 · Oct 9, 2015

This says it all really, it's what lots of us have been saying from day one.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/610898/Human-Relief-Foundation-Calais-Migrant-Jungle-Kassim-Tokan

BadFish · Oct 9, 2015

Hastings gull said:
TYour earlier post in fact inadvertently highlighted the problems of living so far away, when you felt it necessary to qualify that you read the same material "by and large". That is the point. You are restricted to reading material, and of course material which you know will confirm your bias, to say noting of the customary quoting of convenient figures,whereas others live here on a day to day basis -there is no substitute for this. You do not watch TV here, you do not read the letter pages here, you do not have relatives involved in the process,you don't have people telling you your dog is dirty, you do not have abuse when you let a lady go first - all these things, whilst in isolation seemingly minor, add up to a picture that all is not well.

This is your perception of the situation based on your own innate biases (don't get shirty we all have them). The problem is that your position here seems to suggest that a person who also lives in the same country will experience it in the same way as you and interpret those experiences in the same way as you (with your biases). So the argument that you and SM are making (although SM has wisely backed away from this now) is that if i lived in the UK I would see things as you do do and interpret those things the same. This is of course preposterously flawed logic as people just aren't like that, people experience the world differently and interpret their experiences differently (with their own biases). If your point were correct it would mean that everyone in the UK has the same opinion on refugees as you as they would 'see' things the same as you do. With all this in mind I would suggest that it is not in fact location that makes my views different to yours but more a difference in the way that we interpret our experiences.

This is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK (indeed my views are partially formed by talking to many people in the UK) and why they would not change radically if and when I choose to return.

it is also worth noting that this particular round of 'you don't even live here' nonsense was sparked by my observation that many of those left on this thread seem to be finding a whole new range of things to blame on immigration.This observation is based entirely on the contents of this thread and the place I read this thread makes no difference at all to the point made. But I suppose you chaps will rely on the best counter argument you can muster even if it makes no sense.

Soulman · Oct 9, 2015

Nibble said:
Nor are you. These problems arise in Syria and other far off places.

I thought the thread title UK migration mean't I could post my opinions seeing as I live here and refugees from Syria will be coming here.

Megazone · Oct 9, 2015

BadFish said:
Actually my views on this subject have changed quite a lot through reading the decent evidence posted on these threads. You may of course have known that if you had been around before the beginning of the year.

Where have your views changed on immigration compared to last year?

Soulman · Oct 9, 2015

BadFish said:
This is your perception of the situation based on your own innate biases (don't get shirty we all have them). The problem is that your position here seems to suggest that a person who also lives in the same country will experience it in the same way as you and interpret those experiences in the same way as you (with your biases). So the argument that you and SM are making (although SM has wisely backed away from this now) is that if i lived in the UK I would see things as you do do and interpret those things the same. This is of course preposterously flawed logic as people just aren't like that, people experience the world differently and interpret their experiences differently (with their own biases). If your point were correct it would mean that everyone in the UK has the same opinion on refugees as you as they would 'see' things the same as you do. With all this in mind I would suggest that it is not in fact location that makes my views different to yours but more a difference in the way that we interpret our experiences.

This is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK (indeed my views are partially formed by talking to many people in the UK) and why they would not change radically if and when I choose to return.

it is also worth noting that this particular round of 'you don't even live here' nonsense was sparked by my observation that many of those left on this thread seem to be finding a whole new range of things to blame on immigration.This observation is based entirely on the contents of this thread and the place I read this thread makes no difference at all to the point made. But I suppose you chaps will rely on the best counter argument you can muster even if it makes no sense.

I have not backed away, in the UK it is daytime so I am at work and just look in as and when.

burstead · Oct 9, 2015

bashlsdir said:
This says it all really, it's what lots of us have been saying from day one.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/610898/Human-Relief-Foundation-Calais-Migrant-Jungle-Kassim-Tokan

it says what lots of express readers would believe, not quite true though again http://www.hrf.org.uk/clarification-on-calais/

looney · Oct 9, 2015

BadFish said:
. This is of course preposterously flawed logic as people just aren't like that, people experience the world differently and interpret their experiences differently (with their own biases). If your point were correct it would mean that everyone in the UK has the same opinion on refugees as you as they would 'see' things the same as you do. With all this in mind I would suggest that it is not in fact location that makes my views different to yours but more a difference in the way that we interpret our experiences.

This is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK (indeed my views are partially formed by talking to many people in the UK) and why they would not change radically if and when I choose to return.

it is also worth noting that this particular round of 'you don't even live here' nonsense

But you would hold a different opinion. You are a narcassist. And as such can be guaranteed to act in what you beleive to be your own personal interest.

One of the sure signs of a Narcassist is the inability to articulate other views in an objective manner or view an issue objectivley, as well as acting in your own best interest.

An example in the post above, his is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK

A minority of residents even immigrants, hence if the probability was that your views would reflect the majority you would adopt a different position.

But you cant see that as your judgement is clouded not by perception, but by your psycological make-up, which in a large part hinges on the assumptions that you are safe from any negetive outcomes in the UK and safe from any reprisals in Australia.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Oct 9, 2015

It'll always be easy for the UK to pull up the drawbridge, being an island and all that. Ditto Australia. Aussies have a convenient state-sponsored-and-paid-for immigrant dumping ground in Papua New Guinea. Far as I can see, its only a matter of time before the EU does the same, most likely using Crete. Would solve the Greek financial crisis and the migrant crisis (or at least sweep it under the carpet for the time being) in one fell swoop. Wouldn't put it past them.

Triggaaar · Oct 9, 2015

Tom Hark said:
It'll always be easy for the UK to pull up the drawbridge, being an island and all that. Ditto Australia. Aussies have a convenient state-sponsored-and-paid-for immigrant dumping ground in Papua New Guinea. Far as I can see, its only a matter of time before the EU does the same, most likely using Crete. Would solve the Greek financial crisis and the migrant crisis (or at least sweep it under the carpet for the time being) in one fell swoop. Wouldn't put it past them.

Secret talks were held and a deal was offered to Greece for Crete, but Greece said no. EU leaders met, and they settled on using Britain.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Oct 9, 2015

Triggaaar said:
Secret talks were held and a deal was offered to Greece for Crete, but Greece said no. EU leaders met, and they settled on using Britain.

And I, for one, welcome our new immigrant overlords,

looney · Oct 9, 2015

Tom Hark said:
It'll always be easy for the UK to pull up the drawbridge, being an island and all that. Ditto Australia. Aussies have a convenient state-sponsored-and-paid-for immigrant dumping ground in Papua New Guinea. Far as I can see, its only a matter of time before the EU does the same, most likely using Crete. Would solve the Greek financial crisis and the migrant crisis (or at least sweep it under the carpet for the time being) in one fell swoop. Wouldn't put it past them.

quite possible, or unite the EU under a far right backlash/gov.

Anyway I thought you was IP banned? :lol:

Hastings gull · Oct 9, 2015

burstead said:
it says what lots of express readers would believe, not quite true though again http://www.hrf.org.uk/clarification-on-calais/

Whilst I do not doubt that the Express saw its chance, apparently interviewing one person, to make capital out of the situation to sell papers, what you are claiming is also not quite true, is it? The Charity, with one eye on future donations, is also being, shall we say, not quite direct as it could be with the truth. Note that what the whistle-blower told the Express has not actually been denied and of course we only have the Charity's word that it is based on one day or whatever. Yes, it might have been a first impression, but that should not mean that what s(he) saw should be discounted. Afterall, if someone went to, say, Albion v Palace for the first time, and their first impression was hooliganism, which they witnessed on entry into the ground, would that be discounted. The Charity also rather vaguely insisted that they were carrying on, FOR NOW, which suggests they too do not regard the situation as totally satisfactory.

Hastings gull · Oct 9, 2015

BadFish said:
This is your perception of the situation based on your own innate biases (don't get shirty we all have them). The problem is that your position here seems to suggest that a person who also lives in the same country will experience it in the same way as you and interpret those experiences in the same way as you (with your biases). So the argument that you and SM are making (although SM has wisely backed away from this now) is that if i lived in the UK I would see things as you do do and interpret those things the same. This is of course preposterously flawed logic as people just aren't like that, people experience the world differently and interpret their experiences differently (with their own biases). If your point were correct it would mean that everyone in the UK has the same opinion on refugees as you as they would 'see' things the same as you do. With all this in mind I would suggest that it is not in fact location that makes my views different to yours but more a difference in the way that we interpret our experiences.

This is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK (indeed my views are partially formed by talking to many people in the UK) and why they would not change radically if and when I choose to return.

it is also worth noting that this particular round of 'you don't even live here' nonsense was sparked by my observation that many of those left on this thread seem to be finding a whole new range of things to blame on immigration.This observation is based entirely on the contents of this thread and the place I read this thread makes no difference at all to the point made. But I suppose you chaps will rely on the best counter argument you can muster even if it makes no sense.

I accept that we all have our bias -indeed my mate always says that there are THREE sides to every story -your version, my version, and the truth! I can in all honesty state that I have never ever thought that if you lived in the UK, you would think as I do - I have never even thought about it. I am sure that you would probably stick to the same views. Of course what you say is flawed logic -which is probably why it has never occurred to me. I say that you are unable to grasp the whole story with regard to immigration into the UK, because your experiences are such that you ARE unable to do so. How could one possibly from so far away? As you rightly say, we experience the world differently, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it becomes contentious is when, armed with one experience, one then lectures others with a different experience. I would not dream of talking about the situation in OZ, because my experience of life is such that I have no knowledge of this whatsoever.
As to your contention that your views are similar to "many" UK citizens based on your discussions from so far away -this is blatantly absurd. How can you possibly be in a position to talk to "many" UK citizens. I assume you talk to relatives and old friends, and hey presto, they agree with you. This is hardly the first time that you have attempted to justify your expertise on the situation here, and of course it is there simply to lend some credence to your position. People who live here talk with UK citizens far more than you do, surprise surprise, and I can assure you that your view is very much that of the minority. The issue of mass immigration is of huge concern to the British people.
And as for your last sentence, it is sadly true to form - the usual arrogance about "you chaps" and the inability to muster an argument. It is everyone else at fault, of course. Just not decent and well-,meaning BF.

The Spanish · Oct 9, 2015

Tom Hark said:
It'll always be easy for the UK to pull up the drawbridge, being an island and all that. Ditto Australia. Aussies have a convenient state-sponsored-and-paid-for immigrant dumping ground in Papua New Guinea. Far as I can see, its only a matter of time before the EU does the same, most likely using Crete. Would solve the Greek financial crisis and the migrant crisis (or at least sweep it under the carpet for the time being) in one fell swoop. Wouldn't put it past them.

the crete that kicked its native born muslims out in the not so distant past? who a lot then went to live in syria......the worlds a mad place.

Soulman · Oct 9, 2015

Hastings gull said:
I accept that we all have our bias -indeed my mate always says that there are THREE sides to every story -your version, my version, and the truth! I can in all honesty state that I have never ever thought that if you lived in the UK, you would think as I do - I have never even thought about it. I am sure that you would probably stick to the same views. Of course what you say is flawed logic -which is probably why it has never occurred to me. I say that you are unable to grasp the whole story with regard to immigration into the UK, because your experiences are such that you ARE unable to do so. How could one possibly from so far away? As you rightly say, we experience the world differently, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it becomes contentious is when, armed with one experience, one then lectures others with a different experience. I would not dream of talking about the situation in OZ, because my experience of life is such that I have no knowledge of this whatsoever.
As to your contention that your views are similar to "many" UK citizens based on your discussions from so far away -this is blatantly absurd. How can you possibly be in a position to talk to "many" UK citizens. I assume you talk to relatives and old friends, and hey presto, they agree with you. This is hardly the first time that you have attempted to justify your expertise on the situation here, and of course it is there simply to lend some credence to your position. People who live here talk with UK citizens far more than you do, surprise surprise, and I can assure you that your view is very much that of the minority. The issue of mass immigration is of huge concern to the British people.
And as for your last sentence, it is sadly true to form - the usual arrogance about "you chaps" and the inability to muster an argument. It is everyone else at fault, of course. Just not decent and well-,meaning BF.

I could not have put it better myself.

knocky1 · Oct 9, 2015

The Spanish said:
the crete that kicked its native born muslims out in the not so distant past? who a lot then went to live in syria......the worlds a mad place.

Good fact.

pastafarian · Oct 9, 2015

burstead said:
it says what lots of express readers would believe, not quite true though again http://www.hrf.org.uk/clarification-on-calais/

the express didnt report a lie though,you can see and hear Deputy CEO Kassim Tokan say to ITV News what the express reported here (2nd video down)

http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/story/2015-10-06/dunkirk-inside-the-unseen-camps/

bashlsdirs post is not incorrect

BadFish · Oct 9, 2015

Hastings gull said:
I accept that we all have our bias -indeed my mate always says that there are THREE sides to every story -your version, my version, and the truth! I can in all honesty state that I have never ever thought that if you lived in the UK, you would think as I do - I have never even thought about it. I am sure that you would probably stick to the same views. Of course what you say is flawed logic -which is probably why it has never occurred to me. I say that you are unable to grasp the whole story with regard to immigration into the UK, because your experiences are such that you ARE unable to do so. How could one possibly from so far away? As you rightly say, we experience the world differently, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it becomes contentious is when, armed with one experience, one then lectures others with a different experience. I would not dream of talking about the situation in OZ, because my experience of life is such that I have no knowledge of this whatsoever.
As to your contention that your views are similar to "many" UK citizens based on your discussions from so far away -this is blatantly absurd. How can you possibly be in a position to talk to "many" UK citizens. I assume you talk to relatives and old friends, and hey presto, they agree with you. This is hardly the first time that you have attempted to justify your expertise on the situation here, and of course it is there simply to lend some credence to your position. People who live here talk with UK citizens far more than you do, surprise surprise, and I can assure you that your view is very much that of the minority. The issue of mass immigration is of huge concern to the British people.
And as for your last sentence, it is sadly true to form - the usual arrogance about "you chaps" and the inability to muster an argument. It is everyone else at fault, of course. Just not decent and well-,meaning BF.

You make some good points here HG. Your problem is though that you have completely misread my stance on this subject and set up your own straw man argument. If you look at my contribution to this thread you will find no comment on mass immigration per se (this is something we have gone over and over and your unwillingness to understand is the crux of our endless disagreements) you will find that my comments are about refugees and asylum seekers and the misinformation posted. I have made no comment on mass immigration to the UK precisely because of the reasons you state in your post. To put that one to bed lets say I am agnostic about the effects of immigration to the UK. The point is that you seem to be saying that i can't have and shouldn't share my opinion on mass immigration to the UK because i don't see what is going on. Well i agree and I haven't (feel free to have a look and prove me wrong). What i have commented in is the global issue (of which i am a part) of refugees and displaced persons (which I agree is effected by the rest of the immigration to the UK issue and certainly does have some overlaps).

As an aside [MENTION=30847]Megazone[/MENTION] this is where my opinions have changed somewhat over time

To be perfectly frank, until you decide to understand this distinction (i am assuming that as an intelligent chap it is that you choose not to understand the distinction rather than cannot) there really is no point in us continuing our dialogue.

As for your point about the popularity of my position (on refugees not mass immigration). You assertion that i am in the minority means very little to me as in this case i don't think that popularity effects the validity of the idea. "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." said Einstein and in this case i believe him to be right. I would be interested to know how you know that my views are very much in a majority when you seem unwilling to understand what my views actually are.

As for the last part I think that i am entirely correct with this as your post have once again proven. You have highlighted that you are unwilling to understand the points I am making because it is easier for you to head off down this particular 'you don't even live here' cul de sac than actually address the points that i am making. This is demonstrated by the fact that we are going back over the same old ground with you for the second or third time on this thread alone and for the umpteenth time with SM over the years. It is not everyone else's fault at all I take responsibility for my part in the tedious monotony of this discussion, do you? If you do shall we get back on topic?

BadFish · Oct 9, 2015

looney said:
But you would hold a different opinion. You are a narcassist. And as such can be guaranteed to act in what you beleive to be your own personal interest.

One of the sure signs of a Narcassist is the inability to articulate other views in an objective manner or view an issue objectivley, as well as acting in your own best interest.

An example in the post above, his is of course why my views are similar to views held by many residents of the UK

A minority of residents even immigrants, hence if the probability was that your views would reflect the majority you would adopt a different position.

But you cant see that as your judgement is clouded not by perception, but by your psycological make-up, which in a large part hinges on the assumptions that you are safe from any negetive outcomes in the UK and safe from any reprisals in Australia.

You should be a psychologist Looney your ability to diagnose someone by an internet profile is uncanny. You could do like an online practice your just as good as those survey things people do on facebook.

If I was a narcissist I would love the fact that after one wry observation this thread has become all about me......... so thanks for that.

Actually I would rather get back on topic as this whole 'you don't leave here' nonsense has been done to death. Actually you should be careful because unless you live in the US your posting (trolling) on the USA shooting thread could be seen as being hypocritcal - 'You don't even live there", "your opinions on that thread are clouded by the fact that you are safe from any negative outcomes int he US and safe from any reprisals in the UK"

Of course getting back on topic would mean that you actually have to form an opinion on the subject rather than just attacking other posters.

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