[Politics] Brexit

Pinkie Brown · Jan 1, 2019

This whole saga has the stench of scandal & screw up waiting to happen. Throw master of disaster, Chris Grayling into the mix, it's odds on to go horribly wrong.

Aside from the previously mentioned concerns, there is the small matter of Ramsgate Harbour and approaches needing a major dredging operation. Ramsgate hasn´t been operational since 2013. No chance that will be completed by 29th March. It's not a quick job. The Mayor of Ostend also stated yesterday, nobody from either Seaborne or the UK Government have spoken to him yet about starting services to the port or contracts.

Just minor issues. Maybe those guys in the dinghies should be employed as consultants.

portslade seagull · Jan 1, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Well I would guess your brother in law is hoping to God TM gets her deal through then, because 'no deal' would probably F*** him over not being able to use the EU WTO rates and quotas for the USA and far east

I do wonder what he thinks of you backing 'no deal'

*edit* trying to make it very simple for you, America are one of the many countries who have turned down Britain's WTO submissions and won't allow us to use the EU ones

He's already dealing with them and it doesn't affect that. Remember the parts are manufactured in Thailand. Maybe proof read before you go off on one.

cunning fergus · Jan 1, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
It's nothing to do with the French or other companies. Trading agreements are in place now, and then will be ripped up, if there is no deal.

TM says she is very clear and confident her deal will go through, but is spending millions on contingency plans in case it doesn't. It appears to be a form of blackmail to other MPs that it's her way or chaos.

What trading agreements are going to be ripped up?

Leaving the EU does not have to change existing trading arrangements, the impact is in the gift of politicians. If the EU want to impose conditions for favourable trading we can simply revert to WTO, these are working around the world now.....the UK doesnt have a trade deal with the US, our biggest trading partner......so in theory there is nothing to worry about.

Even within the EU the legal constructs of mechanisms such as “reverse solicitation” will mean that UK companies could easily trade with EU citizens. This is all part of sensible no-deal planning. There is nothing to worry about.

cunning fergus · Jan 1, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I don't believe the BBC. I have proved at least one of their news items was a lie. They ignored my complaint when I contacted them to say so.

Sounds frustrating, i have been banned, and re-banned from the Brexit thread for 18 months i guess, i have never been told why.....ive lost count of the tomes i have highighted this. Shit happens i guess.

WATFORD zero · Jan 1, 2019

portslade seagull said:
He's already dealing with them and it doesn't affect that. Remember the parts are manufactured in Thailand. Maybe proof read before you go off on one.

Trust me, if we go no deal, whether he exports or imports from the USA there are significant effects. Let me know which he does and what sector he is in and I will tell you the effects.

And you didn't mention before that the parts were manufactured in Thailand. But now you have, he had better hope that we manage to set up some type of trade agreement with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (the trading bloc that Thailand is part of) in the next 90 days, or he may see some significant changes to his import duties on parts.

No proof reading required :shrug:

WATFORD zero · Jan 1, 2019

cunning fergus said:
What trading agreements are going to be ripped up?

Leaving the EU does not have to change existing trading arrangements, the impact is in the gift of politicians. If the EU want to impose conditions for favourable trading we can simply revert to WTO, these are working around the world now.....the UK doesnt have a trade deal with the US, our biggest trading partner......so in theory there is nothing to worry about.

Even within the EU the legal constructs of mechanisms such as “reverse solicitation” will mean that UK companies could easily trade with EU citizens. This is all part of sensible no-deal planning. There is nothing to worry about.

So, after we have ripped up all trading agreements with the EU, we then have to rip up all EU WTO quotas and tariffs that we currently use for trading with the major economies and trading blocs in the rest of the world - the USA, Russia, China, India etc etc etc. (We can only use these while we are members of the EU).

And what, exactly is this WTO that we can simply revert to ?

Incidentally, 'these WTO that are working around the world'. You are aware there isn't a single country in the world trading on WTO defaults ?

Baker lite · Jan 1, 2019

87 days to go.
On our way.

CheeseRolls · Jan 1, 2019

cunning fergus said:
What trading agreements are going to be ripped up?

Leaving the EU does not have to change existing trading arrangements, the impact is in the gift of politicians. The Discussion here is clearly about No Deal EXIT which does impact trading arrangements If the EU want to impose conditions for favourable trading we can simply revert to WTO,The UK doesn't want to "revert" to WTO and has already lodged some suggested amendments with the WTO. This is a VERY weak negotiating position in the event of a no deal these are working around the world now.....the UK doesn't have a trade deal with the USIt doesn't need one now. There is a whole range of agreements in place between the EU and the US, our biggest single trading partner......so in theory there is nothing to worry about.

Even within the EU the legal constructs of mechanisms such as “reverse solicitation” will mean that UK companies could easily trade with EU citizens. This is all part of sensible no-deal planning. There is nothing to worry about.

A collection of selective statements and misinformation. Yes trade can continue and for a fanatic like yourself this is all that matters, delays, high inflation, a lack of safe standards for imported goods, may be of concern to very many people.

drew · Jan 1, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
So, after we have ripped up all trading agreements with the EU, we then have to rip up all EU WTO quotas and tariffs that we currently use for trading with the major economies and trading blocs in the rest of the world - the USA, Russia, China, India etc etc etc. (We can only use these while we are members of the EU).

And what, exactly is this WTO that we can simply revert to ?

Incidentally, 'these WTO that are working around the world'. You are aware there isn't a single country in the world trading on WTO defaults ?

And therein lies the rub. Brexiteers haven't an effing clue what they are talking about.

pastafarian · Jan 1, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
Job applications are coming in.

[tweet]1080081210548936705[/tweet]

Seaborne have been negotiating for months to reintroduce a freight service back to Ramsgate after Transeuropa went bust and left the port in the crap.
Personally i would have thought this would have been a good thing with the extra jobs concerned. But then along come our sneering europhiles who now want to rubbish it and discredit their aim because the gov has seen fit to use them in a no deal scenario.
Some of you really do have your heads screwed on backwards.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 1, 2019

pastafarian said:
Seaborne have been negotiating for months to reintroduce a freight service back to Ramsgate after Transeuropa went bust and left the port in the crap.
Personally i would have thought this would have been a good thing with the extra jobs concerned. But then along come our sneering europhiles who now want to rubbish it and discredit their aim because the gov has seen fit to use them in a no deal scenario.
Some of you really do have your heads screwed on backwards.

Yet again you are missing the point. The issue is more the zero tendering, zero due-diligence and secrecy surrounding this deal. The government have completely bypassed usual process and procedure. This is not good-governance and is clearly open to corruption.

pastafarian · Jan 2, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yet again you are missing the point. The issue is more the zero tendering, zero due-diligence and secrecy surrounding this deal. The government have completely bypassed usual process and procedure. This is not good-governance and is clearly open to corruption.

i am not missing the point that seaborne have been negotiating for months to secure a re-introduction of freight at Ramsgate and bring back lost jobs. Not one of you moaners have acknowledged this positive. The dti says there has been due diligence but apparently you know more than them and you are somehow privy to the information as to how they came by their decision. We are clearly living in a time sensitive situation where speed is of the essence now to get a no deal scenario as ready as possible, especially as it seems Labour will vote against any deal presented (for purely political gain) If you think there has been corruption spit it out and name names. Im sure you have combed the members list of interests to give yourself a head start. Or just hint there has been because you are a one trick pony purely focused on bashing the tories above all else, including whats in the interests of the country, that you clearly care little about.

pastafarian · Jan 2, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I don't believe the BBC. I have proved at least one of their news items was a lie. They ignored my complaint when I contacted them to say so.

How have you proved they were incorrect if they never got back to you to explain how they reported the news item in the way that they did.
They must get thousands of complaints a day from people that they just ignore or file under crackpot. Did you complain using the official complaint procedure where you verify yourself and get a confirmation of your complaint and that it will be looked into within a set period and you will receive a reply after they have looked at the news item again with regard to your specific complaint of the content and then they never bothered getting back to you( i did this once officially and got a response saying they were reviewing the broadcast with regard to my specific complaint and would contact me after a review and got a further reply with their findings) or did you just fire off an angry email or letter from Mrs Angry of Tunbridge Wells and conclude because they didnt get back to you that you must therefore be right and the news item was a lie?
What news item did they report wrongly and what was wrong about it. Im sure their "wrong" version of the story will still be available in website form.

nicko31 · Jan 2, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
A very interesting lecture from Sir Ivan Rogers at Liverpool University. You can either listen via audio or read the transcript. Nine categories laying out the truth of Brexit with plain facts.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/1...N3szQCb-55c9VWzXUlbkJMzeCd2aQ0MQWg_sfanKJoQ44

Happy new year to everyone on NSC

Thanks for posting this, a brutual dose of reality from someone who know the EU from top to bottom.

Unfortunately the ones that really should be listening to this will not.

We are just at the start of the real negotiation and after 29th March, any leverage we had in the process will be gone

Westdene Seagull · Jan 2, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
Nobody forced them to offer retirement on good pensions at 55, or join the euro. They were in a right royal state, before, so the EU enforced strict rules to get them back on track, just like Britain had to do under the IMF in the 70s, when we had rampant inflation.

And yet again you ignore the EU breaking it's own Eurozone rules to let Greece in, France and Germany profiteering out of Greece and the absolute fact that the rules the EU then enforced on Greece killed normal Greek people. Let's throw in the EUs meddling in Italy's budget only this week and it highlights that EU members aren't really truely independent countries any more.

darkwolf666 · Jan 2, 2019

pastafarian said:
i am not missing the point that seaborne have been negotiating for months to secure a re-introduction of freight at Ramsgate and bring back lost jobs. Not one of you moaners have acknowledged this positive. The dti says there has been due diligence but apparently you know more than them and you are somehow privy to the information as to how they came by their decision. We are clearly living in a time sensitive situation where speed is of the essence now to get a no deal scenario as ready as possible, especially as it seems Labour will vote against any deal presented (for purely political gain) If you think there has been corruption spit it out and name names. Im sure you have combed the members list of interests to give yourself a head start. Or just hint there has been because you are a one trick pony purely focused on bashing the tories above all else, including whats in the interests of the country, that you clearly care little about.

I live in Kent and know that jobs in that part of the county would be very welcome. However what I don’t see is adverts in the local press for the 100s of jobs an operation like this should create. They don’t appear to have a legitimate operation at present and I can’t see how they can be geared up in the next two months...

Mo Gosfield · Jan 2, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
I live in Kent and know that jobs in that part of the county would be very welcome. However what I don’t see is adverts in the local press for the 100s of jobs an operation like this should create. They don’t appear to have a legitimate operation at present and I can’t see how they can be geared up in the next two months...

They have a company geared to start operations at the agreed date. This company was created some time ago, largely through private investment. They commissioned four cross-channel ferries, with a plan for four more by June 2019. The first four have all been sea-tested, all safety tests have been passed, staff have been recruited and everything is in place. Some people are assuming that nothing is in place. It is all in place.

fanseagull · Jan 2, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qZhlrbcB8 ............….LISTEN
regards
DR

Your usual pointless posturing.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vRAFsH25gg
you listen

Thunder Bolt · Jan 2, 2019

pastafarian said:
How have you proved they were incorrect if they never got back to you to explain how they reported the news item in the way that they did.
They must get thousands of complaints a day from people that they just ignore or file under crackpot. Did you complain using the official complaint procedure where you verify yourself and get a confirmation of your complaint and that it will be looked into within a set period and you will receive a reply after they have looked at the news item again with regard to your specific complaint of the content and then they never bothered getting back to you( i did this once officially and got a response saying they were reviewing the broadcast with regard to my specific complaint and would contact me after a review and got a further reply with their findings) or did you just fire off an angry email or letter from Mrs Angry of Tunbridge Wells and conclude because they didnt get back to you that you must therefore be right and the news item was a lie?
What news item did they report wrongly and what was wrong about it. Im sure their "wrong" version of the story will still be available in website form.

My own eyes and ears as I was in that particular place at that particular time. Yes, I did use the official complaint procedure, and I don't fire off emails in anger.

Thunder Bolt · Jan 2, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
And yet again you ignore the EU breaking it's own Eurozone rules to let Greece in, France and Germany profiteering out of Greece and the absolute fact that the rules the EU then enforced on Greece killed normal Greek people. Let's throw in the EUs meddling in Italy's budget only this week and it highlights that EU members aren't really truely independent countries any more.

Italy are in the Eurozone, so have to abide by the euro rules. The UK vetoed the euro, so do not have to do so.
The UK profited from lending Portugal money, when they needed it. That has been paid back to us, in full, and with interest. That's what cooperation is.

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