Shoreham Air show crash

symyjym · Sep 7, 2015

severnside gull said:
Pilot started his manoeuvre 200 metres above ground level when his licence stipulated 500 metres minimum according to initial report.

No faults with the aircraft seemingly.

One hesitates to pre-empt decisions still some way off but the pilot would seem to be, potentially at least, criminally culpable.

The starting point height must be key to the finishing height, and on a fighter jet I doubt it would be a perfect circle. More like a spiral that is tighter at the beginning than at the end, so height would naturally be lost. There will probably be some calculation that will predict whether it was destined to crash, or not, as soon as he started the maneuver.

Bold Seagull · Sep 7, 2015

Buzzer · Sep 7, 2015

Bold Seagull said:
So many factors to consider, and very few facts given the radar tracking missed a fair section of the flight, there was no back box recorder, and so the data they have is understandably sketchy and will require a lot of analysis.

You then speculate the pilot is likely culpable, when that is just wild conjecture at this stage that really shouldn't be put onto a public forum with an ongoing inquest. Hardly knee jerk criticism when any reasoned person would refrain from insinuating blame at this stage.

Can I suggest that if you don't like something, that you report it to the mods rather than set yourself up as the arbiter of what should and shouldn't be said here?

Bold Seagull · Sep 7, 2015

Buzzer said:
Can I suggest that if you don't like something, that you report it to the mods rather than set yourself up as the arbiter of what should and shouldn't be said here?

fair enough.

martyn20 · Sep 7, 2015

severnside gull said:
It is not speculation to report fact.
The report by the Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) may be preliminary but is hardly uninformed and will form a central element of any determination subsequently made by the inquest among others.
Understand knee jerk criticism. In a percect world all would be blameless but where there is fault there have to be repercussions

They have only just begun to investigate the wreckage of the plane, the reason it's all a preliminary report is because they are not finished and they do not currently know what caused the accident.
To draw any conclusions at this point IS speculation, do it on a flight forum not a place where friend and family of the dead maybe viewing looking for answers.

symyjym · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
They have only just begun to investigate the wreckage of the plane, the reason it's all a preliminary report is because they are not finished and they do not currently know what caused the accident.
To draw any conclusions at this point IS speculation, do it on a flight forum not a place where friend and family of the dead maybe viewing looking for answers.

Why would the victims friends and families be looking for answers on NSC?

atomised · Sep 7, 2015

Could it perhaps be that friends and family, particularly those of Matthew and Jacob have found comfort in the condolences expressed here since the accident

martyn20 · Sep 7, 2015

symyjym said:
Why would the victims friends and families be looking for answers on NSC?

They are looking for answers everywhere and could well be viewing this forum, Christ is it so hard to understand?

symyjym · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
They are looking for answers everywhere and could well be viewing this forum, Christ is it so hard to understand?

I am not going to get into a debate about it but please tell me what comments are acceptable for this thread?

If anyone who comments on this thread is going to be told not to comment it would probably be best if this thread is locked.

The Upper Library · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
They are looking for answers everywhere and could well be viewing this forum, Christ is it so hard to understand?

100% this.

martyn20 · Sep 7, 2015

symyjym said:
I am not going to get into a debate about it but please tell me what comments are acceptable for this thread?

If anyone who comments on this thread is going to be told not to comment it would probably be best if this thread is locked.

People have been asked several times not to speculate in this thread about the cause of the accident until the investigation has been completed and the families and friends know for sure what happened.
Is that not reasonable, hardly talking about all comments am I?

Blue Valkyrie · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
They have only just begun to investigate the wreckage of the plane, the reason it's all a preliminary report is because they are not finished and they do not currently know what caused the accident.
To draw any conclusions at this point IS speculation, do it on a flight forum not a place where friend and family of the dead maybe viewing looking for answers.

Surely if someone were looking for answers, they would also be looking on all flight forums ?

martyn20 · Sep 7, 2015

Blue Valkyrie said:
Surely if someone were looking for answers, they would also be looking on all flight forums ?

This is a football forum of a club close to a terrible incident, people have posted about those gone, how we are marking their deaths and how it is effecting us. Not whether the pilot is legal calculable for those deaths when all the facts are not know and the investigation has only just started.

Blue Valkyrie · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
This is a football forum of a club close to a terrible incident, people have posted about those gone, how we are marking their deaths and how it is effecting us. Not whether the pilot is legal calculable for those deaths when all the facts are not know and the investigation has only just started.

OK, not the place to have a disagreement really.

Perhaps the thread title should be changed to prevent ( perhaps inevitable ) further misunderstanding ?

severnside gull · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
People have been asked several times not to speculate in this thread about the cause of the accident until the investigation has been completed and the families and friends know for sure what happened.
Is that not reasonable, hardly talking about all comments am I?

I am happy to apologise unreservedly for any element of speculation in my post which has offended anyone.
Reference to the AAIB's report of a matter of indisputable fact regarding the commencement of the manoeuvre 300 feet below the height permitted by the pilot's licence as detailed in local and national media remains reasonable in my view although I understand that it may be upsetting. (Edit: not wishing to be contentious I will withdraw from any further discussion on this thread and again apologise for unintentionally upsetting some).

Thunder Bolt · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
People have been asked several times not to speculate in this thread about the cause of the accident until the investigation has been completed and the families and friends know for sure what happened.
Is that not reasonable, hardly talking about all comments am I?

To be fair, the Argus headline is reporting the same.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1365...t_was_performed_too_low__says_initial_report/

martyn20 · Sep 7, 2015

Fine I guess people feel enough time has passed, speculate away, not sure using the media to judge when the times right is helpful but hey I am clearly on the wrong side here,

Bold Seagull · Sep 7, 2015

Thunder Bolt said:
To be fair, the Argus headline is reporting the same.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1365...t_was_performed_too_low__says_initial_report/

The Argus is not saying what, why or who is responsible for the aircraft being too low. That is what the inquest will hopefully determine.

Beach Hut · Sep 7, 2015

martyn20 said:
Fine I guess people feel enough time has passed, speculate away, not sure using the media to judge when the times right is helpful but hey I am clearly on the wrong side here,

No you are not, you are totally correct.

Perhaps all these speculators could post the Aviation CVs so we can be very clear how qualified they are to comment on this.

Munkfish · Sep 7, 2015

severnside gull said:
I am happy to apologise unreservedly for any element of speculation in my post which has offended anyone.
Reference to the AAIB's report of a matter of indisputable fact regarding the commencement of the manoeuvre 300 feet below the height permitted by the pilot's licence as detailed in local and national media remains reasonable in my view although I understand that it may be upsetting. (Edit: not wishing to be contentious I will withdraw from any further discussion on this thread and again apologise for unintentionally upsetting some).

I don't think you will have, its obvious you meant no harm.

Martyn seems like he has taking it upon himself to Mod this thread.

To be honest I find his comments about what friends and family of victims may or may not be feeling more offensive as I am sure he has no idea.

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