[Football] Anyone left on here who still thinks

Mellotron · Jan 15, 2018

Icy Gull said:
I love the way so many are blaming CH’s tactics which worked so well and drew so much praise earlier in the season. Now our defenders can’t defend set pieces having been brilliant at it initially we suddenly have the wrong tactics,

The tactics are dull and negative but they work, as we have seen, if you don’t defend like a park team.

We don’t have the players to play on the offensive in most games, without getting a good thrashing, although it seems to be the way forward according to so many on here

I don't agree that they do work against the top 6, for example. Bournemouth, Huddersfield and plenty others around us have picked up points from the top 6. We currently look like there isn't a gnat's chance in hell of getting a win against the top 6.

We have a very pacey side going forward (March, Jose, Baldock) and would suit taking a few more calculated risks at points in my opinion. You say we don't have the players to play offensive football in most games (ie including against the shit around us in the bottom 12) without getting thrashed. I disagree.

I'm confused why you don't count how you defend a set piece as part of tactical planning? Also, yes the way we started the season was decent from Hughton but we have become INSANELY predictable, and other teams have started to figure us out.

djentist · Jan 15, 2018

kevtherev said:
I have to chuckle when people say we will stay up, by skin of our teeth last game of season. Where are we again?....oh yeah Anfield...If we ain't 4/5 points clear of safety with 2 games to go. We are relying on others losing.

Swansea have Stoke on the last day, Palace have West Brom. Stage is set for a scramble

Igzilla · Jan 15, 2018

Ecosse Exile said:
I thought we had a good enough team to survive quite comfortably, i have said so previously and if we dont sign anyone i will still think so but.....

I hadn't banked on Hughton showing the opposition so much respect, im not calling for his head but i really think he is holding us back with his tactics, should have seen it coming tbh, even in the championship our record against the better teams wasnt great.
Showing respect and trying to hold out against United, City, Chelsea etc. Is one thing but to do the same away to Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc is staggering imo.

I really wish he would just let them play their normal game, we do to an extent at home, but even then the wingers are still being told to get back and help the full backs, yes sometimes they have to, but it seems to be their primary role.

If we can sign a pacy striker it will help, of course it will but tell me which chances we missed on Saturday that this striker would have scored? The only one i remember was the one Knocky put over the bar, but then that didnt fall to a striker, maybe a decent striker would have turned and shot instead of passing to Knocky as Murray did, but then the pass was the right choice it was just a poor finish.

Play 4-4-2 stop playing with 6 at the back including the wingers and we might just surprise a few, sadly i dont think Hughton will budge and we will never find out.

I'm of a similar view. I think that there are around 6/7 clubs of a similar level to us (Newcastle, Huddersfield, Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley, West Brom) that are comparable to the top end of the Championship and we should be able to hold our own against them. There are a few more established clubs (Leicester, Palace, Southampton, Stoke, West Ham) where we have a chance of a result if the gods are smiling on us. We should be able to stay up, but whether we will or not depends on our tactics.

Everyone wants a pacy striker, but without the service even the best can't score. We are no longer playing the kind of football that got us promoted - Warren said it on Saturday where last season the wingers would swap flanks after 20/25 minutes if they weren't getting traction, this season they aren't, so we have become very predictable - opposition managers know what we are going to do for the whole game. Unless we change this, I fear our season will ebb away

Icy Gull · Jan 15, 2018

Mellotron said:
I don't agree that they do work against the top 6, for example. Bournemouth, Huddersfield and plenty others around us have picked up points from the top 6. We currently look like there isn't a gnat's chance in hell of getting a win against the top 6.

We have a very pacey side going forward (March, Jose, Baldock) and would suit taking a few more calculated risks at points in my opinion. You say we don't have the players to play offensive football in most games (ie including against the shit around us in the bottom 12) without getting thrashed. I disagree.

I'm confused why you don't count how you defend a set piece as part of tactical planning? Also, yes the way we started the season was decent from Hughton but we have become INSANELY predictable, and other teams have started to figure us out.

All fair comments but are you really suggesting it is somehow down to Hughton’s tactical instructions that we now concede from set pieces nearly every game, rather than player errors?

Mellotron · Jan 15, 2018

Icy Gull said:
All fair comments but are you really suggesting it is somehow down to Hughton’s tactical instructions that we now concede from set pieces nearly every game, rather than player errors?

Probably a bit of both, in my opinion.

I'm not a Hughton boo boy at all, big fan of the man but I am concerned that we do look VERY predictable now. He was always very good in the Championship at adapting us to suit opposition, I want to see him back himself a bit more to take some risks.

drew · Jan 15, 2018

Icy Gull said:
I love the way so many are blaming CH’s tactics which worked so well and drew so much praise earlier in the season. Now our defenders can’t defend set pieces having been brilliant at it initially we suddenly have the wrong tactics,

The tactics are dull and negative but they work, as we have seen, if you don’t defend like a park team.

We don’t have the players to play on the offensive in most games, without getting a good thrashing, although it seems to be the way forward according to so many on here

Not a dig at you Mellotron it was just your post I quoted, plenty of others feel like you clearly.

The tactics did work but clubs have now got our measure. They also know we are vulnerable on set pieces.

worthingseagull · Jan 15, 2018

Plus don't forget our last two games are liverpool and manu - I think most people would agree that our safety needs to be assured before those games, increasing the task hugely

Ecosse Exile · Jan 15, 2018

Icy Gull said:
I love the way so many are blaming CH’s tactics which worked so well and drew so much praise earlier in the season. Now our defenders can’t defend set pieces having been brilliant at it initially we suddenly have the wrong tactics,

The tactics are dull and negative but they work, as we have seen, if you don’t defend like a park team.

We don’t have the players to play on the offensive in most games, without getting a good thrashing, although it seems to be the way forward according to so many on here

Not a dig at you Mellotron it was just your post I quoted, plenty of others feel like you clearly.

But we do have the offensive players, we are asking them to defend first and foremost though.
Knocky, Solly, Izquierdo are all extremely fast and talented wingers but by the time they have sprinted the full length of the pitch to either deliver a cross or shot they are breathing heavy and instead of a quality delivery you just get a delivery, all these guys are good at what they do, yes inconsistent, all wingers are, but they are being asked to do too much.

We already set up with two defensive midfielders to help out the back four, christ, even Gross our supposed attacking midfielder has to get back all the time, Murray too has to drop deeper and deeper.

If our full backs cant defend then maybe those are the positions in need of urgent replacements.

No doubt a pacy striker would help but if we dont/cant get the ball to him with a degree of quality he isnt going to make a difference.

Its all down to tactics, in my opinion, Hughton obviously sees it differently and at the end of the day its his opinion that matters, but if it takes us down then his opinion is wrong.

chaileyjem · Jan 15, 2018

worthingseagull said:
Plus don't forget our last two games are liverpool and manu - I think most people would agree that our safety needs to be assured before those games, increasing the task hugely

Man Utd and Liverpool's seasons might be effectively over by then with nothing to play for. Unusual results have happened in similar games at the back end of the season plenty of times before..

Napper · Jan 15, 2018

crabface said:
I dont know why we havent tried Izquierdo down the center. He looked like our most positive threat on Saturday.

don't agree. When you start pissing with it is smacks of trying Knocky up top last year.

When your scratching about trying to change then the wheels are coming off.

I said at the start of the season , if it gets to a stage where people are calling for 3 at the back then things will be going wrong. I've noticed this along with other suggestions.

CH needs to galvanise everyone and get back to what we were doing well.

New faces will help.

Tricky Dicky · Jan 15, 2018

Icy Gull said:
that we have enough to stay up without any additions to the squad

Seemed to be a few not so long ago. Do you still think like this?

Nope. I have never thought we'd stay up - and I don't have a problem with that - I see only possibly West Brom and Swansea being worse teams (surely nobody think Stoke and Saints are not likely to start picking up a bit) . If we do purchase some quality, we may have a chance, but I can't see where that's currently going to come from.

Mellotron · Jan 15, 2018

worthingseagull said:
Plus don't forget our last two games are liverpool and manu - I think most people would agree that our safety needs to be assured before those games, increasing the task hugely

Our final 8 games

Arsenal (H) 0
Everton (A) 1
Manchester City (A) 0
Leicester (H) 1
Huddersfield (H) 1
Crystal Palace (A) 0
Spurs (H) 0
Burnley (A) 1
Man U (H) 0
Liverpool (A) 0

We may buck the trend and nick 1 or 2 wins at a max, but otherwise it looks very slim pickings, and this is a genuine reason why we needed a new striker Jan 1st rather than Jan 31st. The points we need to win are now, not in March onwards.

kevtherev · Jan 15, 2018

djentist said:
Swansea have Stoke on the last day, Palace have West Brom. Stage is set for a scramble

Might be a bit smelly if Swansea and Stoke both need a point to stay up and send us dwn...Stewards Enquiry?....If we get a Striker it shouldn't come to that tbh. But if we don't I think we are stuffed tbh.

djentist · Jan 15, 2018

worthingseagull said:
Plus don't forget our last two games are liverpool and manu - I think most people would agree that our safety needs to be assured before those games, increasing the task hugely

Huddersfield are in a very similar situation, only one point above us and they have 3 of top six in their last 4 games, just as we do. They have City and Arsenal as their last two, we have United and Liverpool. Think beating them at the Amex could have huge ramifications come the end of the season.

Acker79 · Jan 15, 2018

For me, there shouldn't be any doubt that this squad is good enough to survive, without additions if they play to their potential. The problem is that last bit. Too many aren't playing as well as they can, or aren't consistently doing so.

I imagine a lot of things play into that
-confidence/momentum. The draws where we coulda/shoulda/woulda won (Burnley (h), Bournemouth (h), Stoke (h), Everton (h), Palace (h) Newcastle (a), Watford (a)) will have had an effect.
-attitude. It feels at times this club doesn't believe it is a premier league club, a sense that we should look at those points above as good ones as they're all 'established premier league clubs'
-form. It's only natural that players will come in and out of form, not helped by constant line up changes.
-defensiveness. I don't think this is inherently a bad approach (it isn't one I enjoy, but it's what has worked for hughton), but I think the defensiveness coupled with the confidence/momentum. If you go for it and lose, there's a sense of 'ah well, that's the risk you take' and it's easier to bounce back, but when you try to keep it tight, there's a sense of 'we're not good enough to hold out for 90 minutes' and it weighs on you making it harder to bounce back.

Do I believe this squad is capable of staying up without reinforcements? Yes. Do I think they will stay up? Well, the dropped points, the lack of away goals, it all looks like relegation form at the moment. But a couple of wins and suddenly things look much better. Maybe the wins will come from a bit of luck - an OG, a deflection, a dodgy ref decision, or maybe it'll come from new personnel, bringing in a fresh attitude, a confidence that hasn't been shattered by results, or a little bit of skill.

Having said that, I'm confident we'll sign someone this window, though I'm not confident it'll be the striker we all want. The question then becomes is this squad capable of staying up whoever we manage to sign this window? That'll depend on the signings, naturally.

bhawoddy · Jan 15, 2018

crabface said:
I dont know why we havent tried Izquierdo down the center. He looked like our most positive threat on Saturday.

then got removed at HT - something which CH rarely does......................something wrong there imo

chaileyjem · Jan 15, 2018

Martlet said:
I'm still with Hughton. I think he deserves a crack at this, and we still have time to get it right. But we do need some more adventure, earlier changes if necessary and risks in our approach.

Witness the difference in approach: when Bournemouth went 2-1 down against us, they changed three players and their playing style immediately. ....
When we went 2-0 down against West Brom, we took another 11 minutes to bring Baldock on, and another 10 after that to bring Kayal - all like for like changes - and never looked like getting anything back.

Probably because Hughton had already made a substitution at half time ...

Weststander · Jan 15, 2018

djentist said:
Swansea have Stoke on the last day, Palace have West Brom. Stage is set for a scramble

It won't go down to the last day for us.

In any case, easy pickings for Firmino, Salah, Van Dijk and Mane.

Weststander · Jan 15, 2018

djentist said:
Huddersfield are in a very similar situation, only one point above us and they have 3 of top six in their last 4 games, just as we do. They have City and Arsenal as their last two, we have United and Liverpool. Think beating them at the Amex could have huge ramifications come the end of the season.

Hudd and Brighton to be playing together next season then ... in the Championship?

A1X · Jan 15, 2018

I always thought we'd be more likely to go down than stay up. All I wanted for us was to at least put up a fight. That's the dispiriting thing, it doesn't even feel like we're doing that.

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