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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,294
brightn'ove said:
If I voted for something that directly resulted in an increase in racism and hate crimes in this country I would be ashamed with myself.
Click to expand...

what if you voted for something that shouldnt have directly lead to hate crimes, but others took the result as some sort of cue, should you be ashamed? or can we expect and assign some personal responsibility to individuals?

as someone in London i have seen and heard all sorts of racial insults from and towards any ethnicity, black, asian, oriental, european. ive been racially insulted myself as someone white. there are alot of fault lines when people with chips on their shoulder come into contact with other cultures. i'm strugling to believe that this vote has created new hostility, or given licence to people to be more overt. maybe in a few provincial towns, not in London, where generally everyone gets along but there are always a few oddballs who dont like reality. its their problem. i suspect there is more reporting of incidents that would have otherwise been ignored by those targeted and of no interest to the normal the media cycle. put another way, i dont think the referendum made anyone racist. if they are and its spurned them to in to action, it means that we have a serious underreported problem that needs addressing and should address that issue not the catalyst.
 




S

severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
Steve in Japan said:
I must be honest, so am I. Got to stamp out this racist tendency. We have the laws these days, the police must apply them . And we as members of the public must call it out whenever we see it.
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My fear is that we wil shrug our shoulders and say "it's only a few idiots" much as we did with Farage's fundamentally facist UKIP organisation. By the time we react, what we previously thought unacceptable has become the norm.
It's glib to say that the police are inherantly racist but they have a poor track record and the politicians who should be leading either clearly have their attention elsewhere or have a vested interest in the situation continuing to deteriorate.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
brightn'ove said:
I don't think you, or the other moderate remainders are racist, I do think you should be ashamed for giving racists a platform however.
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so what do the people who believe that we can create a more equal society by leaving the EU do then ? Should I just agree with you and nullify the result ? How about instead everyone accepts the democratic outcome and works together to move on from this poisonous accusatory atmosphere ?
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
pb21 said:
It's the Brexit clowns who are claiming that remain think everyone who voted Brexit is racist, and are thereby devaluing it.

In reality a small, but not insignificant, percentage of the Brexit vote was borne of racism or similar feelings, it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Since the vote have these feelings are beginning to manifest as overt behavior, likely as those feelings are wrongly being assumed to have been legitimised,
Click to expand...

sure, ok, then lets unite to condemn this racist behaviour and not extend it to telling people they should 'hang their heads in shame' because they exercised their democratic rights.
 


Steve in Japan

Steve in Japan

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 9, 2013
4,449
East of Eastbourne
severnside gull said:
My fear is that we wil shrug our shoulders and say "it's only a few idiots" much as we did with Farage's fundamentally facist UKIP organisation. By the time we react what we previously thought unacceptable has become the norm.
It's glib to say that the police are I nhereny racist but they have a poor track record and the politicians who should be leading either clearly have their attention elsewhere or have a vested interest in the situation continuing to deteriorate.
Click to expand...
At least there are some more laws on the books than in the bad old days. Bloody sad we need them though.
 




GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
Baldseagull said:
Why do you doubt it? Do you think you would be less welcome in a predominantly black inner city area, than a white one? Are you sure you are not racist?
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No,what I said was an area that had a majority -I quoted a majority ethnic or majority Eastern European and as a white person (to cater for the ethnic) and as an English (to cater for the Eastern European) I feel that I could be open to and subject to some form of racist undertones, I said this would be less likely the case if I was in Brighton..

I have grown up in Brighton and known friends of differing backgrounds,i work for a multinational company....I have been to 2 colleges and at one college I used to get a lift from to guys to the railway station, both from Jordan (only in the UK to study before going home).....we had our laughs but they would always have a dislike for the English and the way of life we have(they used to say and I quote-(BLOODY ENGLISH PIGS)...(this is not representative of all foreign people).

We have idiots in this country who need to get of there arses and go to work (feckless feral and long term useless)...you know the type....it's all about the person,the soul and who they are...it matters not with colour or language,creed or whatever.

People are the same the world over and most humans are fair in nature.....but believe me***edited passage-all cultures,all political groups and all human society****** ALL SIDES INCLUDING REMAIN have what is being described as racists.
 
Last edited:




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,944
Crawley
Neville's Breakfast said:
Of course I completely condemn all abuse/attacks. I am not rationalizing them in any way. I am though fed up with them being used by people to advance their point of view. A climate was created and my theory is about as valid as the one to which I responded ie guesswork. The people responsible for racist abuse are the racists so lets not cheapen the term. It is emphatically not the case that we cannot leave an organisation that perpetuates poverty and inequality for fear of being called racist. We leave the organisation and arrest all who commit abuse. As I mentioned earlier though this campaign to cheapen and change the vote will undoubtably mean we don't actually leave the EU in the end.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the people behind the campaign to garner the leave vote, nigh on immediately stepping away from the claims they made, does more to cheapen the result than anything else.
 






GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast


GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,944
Crawley
GoldWithFalmer said:
No,what I said was an area that had a majority -I quoted a majority ethnic or majority Eastern European and as a white person (to cater for the ethnic) and as an English (to cater for the Eastern European) I feel that I could be open to and subject to some form of racist undertones, I said this would be less likely the case if I was in Brighton..

I have grown up in Brighton and known friends of differing backgrounds,i work for a multinational company....I have been to 2 colleges and at one college I used to get a lift from to guys to the railway station, both from Jordan (only in the UK to study before going home).....we had our laughs but they would always have a dislike for the English and the way of life we have(they used to say and I quote-(BLOODY ENGLISH PIGS)...(this is not representative of all foreign people).

We have idiots in this country who need to get of there arses and go to work (feckless feral and long term useless)...you know the type....it's all about the person,the soul and who they are...it matters not with colour or language,creed or whatever.

People are the same the world over and most humans are fair in nature.....but believe me ALL SIDES INCLUDING REMAIN have what is being described as racists.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I have prejudices, but I try to fight them. I like nearly everyone, but not equally.
 


GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
Baldseagull said:
To be honest, I have prejudices, but I try to fight them. I like nearly everyone, but not equally.
Click to expand...

Obnoxious people or rude and arrogant in your face people include in that list? I try to remain upbeat and positive and in the main don't have too many problems but there will always be some..i agree and have a similar viewpoint to you....

My vote leave was because it's clear the immigration and freedom of movement is creating problems in this country almost everywhere outside of Brighton.....My 2nd daughter is born in the next 4 weeks, I don't want her to experience the unrest that is to come if we do not keep the numbers in check and get a grip on immigration in the years to come..
 


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,562
Way out West
pb21 said:
It's the Brexiters who are claiming that remain think everyone who voted Brexit is racist, and are thereby devaluing it.

In reality a small, but not insignificant, percentage of the Brexit vote was borne of racism or similar feelings, it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Since the vote have these feelings are beginning to manifest as overt behavior, likely as those feelings are wrongly being assumed to have been legitimised,
Click to expand...

The problem has been created by Farage, Gove and their cronies who spent TWO MONTHS telling us all that immigrants were stealing our jobs, raping our women, taking our kids' school places, and clogging up the NHS. It's hardly surprising that this has created an environment where some idiots have started taking it out on "foreigners". I obviously condemn the racists, but I wouldn't condemn the vast, vast majority of decent Brexiters, many of whom DO have some very legitimate grievances. The people I utterly despise, though, are Farage (particularly), Gove (not quite as much), and the other members of the Brexit campaign who allowed the whole anti-immigrant message to get completely out of hand.
 




S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
brightn'ove said:
If I voted for something that directly resulted in an increase in racism and hate crimes in this country I would be ashamed with myself.
Click to expand...

The vast majority that voted out did so because they were fed up with the EU, it's un elected making decisions for this country, the money given, the rules, the laws etc.
So easy to keep saying " I would be ashamed with myself.".....for what? for wanting imo a better future for this country.
The vote for most was a straight IN or OUT, you can add or dress the aftermath as you want.
 


GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
beorhthelm said:
what if you voted for something that shouldnt have directly lead to hate crimes, but others took the result as some sort of cue, should you be ashamed? or can we expect and assign some personal responsibility to individuals?

as someone in London i have seen and heard all sorts of racial insults from and towards any ethnicity, black, asian, oriental, european. ive been racially insulted myself as someone white. there are alot of fault lines when people with chips on their shoulder come into contact with other cultures. i'm strugling to believe that this vote has created new hostility, or given licence to people to be more overt. maybe in a few provincial towns, not in London, where generally everyone gets along but there are always a few oddballs who dont like reality. its their problem. i suspect there is more reporting of incidents that would have otherwise been ignored by those targeted and of no interest to the normal the media cycle. put another way, i dont think the referendum made anyone racist. if they are and its spurned them to in to action, it means that we have a serious underreported problem that needs addressing and should address that issue not the catalyst.
Click to expand...

I hope [MENTION=23343]Baldseagull[/MENTION] has read this post...
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
GoldWithFalmer said:
Obnoxious people or rude and arrogant in your face people include in that list? I try to remain upbeat and positive and in the main don't have too many problems but there will always be some..i agree and have a similar viewpoint to you....

My vote leave was because it's clear the immigration and freedom of movement is creating problems in this country almost everywhere outside of Brighton.....My 2nd daughter is born in the next 4 weeks, I don't want her to experience the unrest that is to come if we do not keep the numbers in check and get a grip on immigration in the years to come..
Click to expand...

If you are suggesting that free movement is causing a problem 'almost everywhere outside Brighton' then that is just crazy. If you really do think it's true then I understand why you voted out. But it simply isn't true. There are places, towns I know like Boston and Spalding among others, where EU immigration has put pressure on local communities. They are rare though. I suggest that the vast majority of people who voted out because of immigration problems are acting on hearsay. A phobia grips our land and it's not healthy.
 






lawros left foot

lawros left foot

Glory hunting since 1969
Jun 11, 2011
13,711
Worthing
GoldWithFalmer said:
I hope [MENTION=23343]Baldseagull[/MENTION] has read this post...
Click to expand...

In your first paragraph you ask if you should be named of how you voted, because of the subsequent behaviour of fellow outers ,No, of course you shouldn't, but, leavers should acknowledge that it has happened, and was a reason for some to vote out

I answered the wrong post, seepost299
 


GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
Lincoln Imp said:
If you are suggesting that free movement is causing a problem 'almost everywhere outside Brighton' then that is just crazy. If you really do think it's true then I understand why you voted out. But it simply isn't true. There are places, towns I know like Boston and Spalding among others, where EU immigration has put pressure on local communities. They are rare though. I suggest that the vast majority of people who voted out because of immigration problems are acting on hearsay. A phobia grips our land and it's not healthy.
Click to expand...

I could take you down many high streets and walk you along and tell you to close your eyes and for you to tell me how many languages you can hear...and then if I picked one out could you tell me how I talk to that person in their language? then the next language and then the next? could you do it if they did not speak in English..

That is the problem be it German Pakistani Dutch or Iranian....that is the root of the Phobia...
 


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