drew
Drew
Who said years of training should exclude you from working unsociable hours? None of the arguments about the Junior doctors is about them not working unsociable hours. Where did that come from!
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Jeremy Hunt-v-Junior Doctors.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
Who said years of training should exclude you from working unsociable hours? None of the arguments about the Junior doctors is about them not working unsociable hours. Where did that come from!
£45k is the starting salary for a graduate working in Canary Wharf for an investment bank. By the time they are 27 they would add at least £100k to that, and they have contributed NOTHING to society, unlike medical professionals, who save lives.
That's a fair comment, but if Hunt wants a 7 day NHS he needs to fund it 7 days a week.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
You brought up years of training in your argument. If you're now saying it isn't relevant to the conversation why mention it?
drew
Drew
Between 2011 and 2015, Germany spent 11.3% of GDP on health whereas over the same period we spent 9.1%
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
The only solution is we pay a bit more to use the service, problem solved. Everyone gets the pay and time off they deserve. The government are able to employ more staff and provide a better service to us all. I know it sounds simple, but I can't see any other ways.
drew
Drew
i brought it up but not with reference to it excluding you from unsocial hours. That't what you introduced.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
What I would like to know is how much the Germans contribute compared to us.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Fair enough, It was how your post came across. My mistake.
Basically where I am at on this is do I think healthcare should be 7days a week. Yes
Should Doctors be working 60 hours a week, No. To me this seems bordering on dangerous that in this particular profession you have to be mentally fresh as long as possible so laziness and mistakes are not made.
Err.............isn't the answer 2.2% more of GDP?
Healthcare is 7 days a week for many areas already though. A&E is open 24/7, for example.
I went in for a colonoscopy a few months ago at the weekend. The staff were knowledgeable, caring, professional and supportive.
Jeremy Hunt's claim that there are 11,000 extra deaths a year at weekends and that JD's are the cause is due to his inability to understand medical procedure, responsibility and decision making, as well as a failure to comprehend statistical analysis.
It was exactly the same when he failed to understand how to claim expenses in 2009, and 'accidentally' overclaimed £19,000, and then thought that paying back half the overclaim was a noble thing to do.
Dorset Seagull
Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
I think he meant as individuals
drew
Drew
In an ideal world maybe a full 7 day week NHS would be a reality but it will cost a lot more. Junior doctors, consultants, nurses, cleaners, managers, lab technicians, porters, etc etc. However there are plenty of services available at the weekend already. It is mainly elective surgery that isn't. Emergency services are there as are critical care. Maternity services are there and if you go on the wards, you will see plenty of people in hospital receiving treatment. They don't get sent home on a Friday and asked to come back on a Monday.
The government cherry picked comments from a report about mortality rates at the weekend and used that to justify the '7 day week' NHS but they ignored other parts which didn't support their aims.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
Yes that is what I was after.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I agree with you in the main, but money is not used wisely in the NHS. I know several people that work for the NHS ranging from physios, medical secretaries to IT. The management of the money is very poor, so putting more money in, is not the solution, at the moment. The whole structure is creaking, as it is expected to do more than it was ever designed to do.
The Tories are being very clever with this in that somehow all of the blame and bad press is aimed at Hunt, and not the party. I imagine that there will be a few more strikes after this, at which point Hunt will be removed from his position, the doctors will be happy that they got rid of him and everything will be forgotten. Meanwhile, the tories get what they want at the expense of just one of their politicians.
See Michael Gove and teachers in the last government.
See Michael Gove and teachers in the last government.
Let's not forget that is 2.2% extra of a higher GDP.
So from Google
Germany's GDP per capita is US$46,268.64 so at 11.3% that is US$5,228.36
UK GDP per capita is US$41,787.47 so at 9.1% that is US%3,802.66
Time for us all to move I think...
[MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] Do you have a spare room?
These numbers really are a disgrace. I'm really quite angry now. That discrepancy is huge. Numbers for the rest of Europe to follow...
It is worth noting that German's are expected to have Health Insurance though, and this number contributes towards that 11.3% figure.
Last edited:
- Aug 7, 2003
- 7,793
So, delving further, the statistics that drew linked to, show total expenditure on health care. By that measure it would make it look like the US has the very best health care system in the world. Which I think all of us can agree is not the case if you cannot afford health insurance.
Better figures to use are these Health expenditure as a percentage of government spending though this figure does include compulsory health insurance.
Better figures to use are these Health expenditure as a percentage of government spending though this figure does include compulsory health insurance.
I havent really followed the detail closely, I would expect a Tory government to offer reasonable money and working conditions for doctors, well any government actually.
I just need to know a few things:
What exactly is a 'Junior Doctor' and how long are you one before becoming fully qualified, is it a kind of work experience thing working with fully qualified doctors, very rarely making life and death decisions ?
What are they likely average weekly working hours and how are these new proposals going to effect this ?
So what is their annual salary or hourly rate and how does their salary timeline continue if they stay and become fully qualified doctor or other within the NHS ?
Thank you
I just need to know a few things:
What exactly is a 'Junior Doctor' and how long are you one before becoming fully qualified, is it a kind of work experience thing working with fully qualified doctors, very rarely making life and death decisions ?
What are they likely average weekly working hours and how are these new proposals going to effect this ?
So what is their annual salary or hourly rate and how does their salary timeline continue if they stay and become fully qualified doctor or other within the NHS ?
Thank you