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Forward strength



Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
yep. Dermot Drummy was Development Coach at Chelsea.
The story quotes him saying - "“For me, he’s an out-and-out No.9.”
http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/15436236.Timing_is_perfect_for_Izzy__says_his_ex_Chelsea_coach/
Yes, although Hughton differs slightly on this view.


http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/albion/15433582.Hughton_loves_his_options_with_on_loan_Izzy/

"Hughton told The Argus: “Izzy can play on either flank, but we know he can off the front as well. Eventually he could play as a No.9 but I don’t see him as a nine, I see him as one that is going to play off a front man or in a wide area."


Which is what really matters for now.
 

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
I have no idea why anyone would extol the virtues of a winger filling in the role of Baldock-lite striker.
Not only did every single one of them fail miserably to step up to the position in the Championship, they managed to weaken the effectiveness of the wing play by not being there either.

All of them were so bad we had to endure Murray and Hemed playing together.
If those 2 tackling each other is preferable to AK, Solly, Murphy or Skalak 'filling in' then they clearly aren't the answer.
 

Nixonator

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2016
6,733
Shoreham Beach
Are we trying to throw Izzy into every position we need a high quality signing? I guess that makes sense if we go into September without a new CM, Winger or Striker we can just say this lad can play there.

A number 9 he is not. Why do I feel like this is PR to sow the seed for "do we really need another Striker?" debates.
 


Nixonator

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2016
6,733
Shoreham Beach
You should take it up with Hughton then who obviously feels it has merit.

He also said Dale Stephens was performing some extra training when we needed him at Reading and Newcastle.

Hughton is our best manager in my lifetime, but the sun does not shine from his arse despite popular belief. He says what he needs to say and external forces probably pressure him into saying things he doesn't truly believe on occasion ie. we failed at bringing in a 10 last summer and needed to appease the fans. I don't truly believe he thinks that our wide players (other than perhaps Murphy) are competitive in that position unless desperation calls. Hence why we've signed 2 of them so far this window.
 

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 27, 2012
13,750
All of them were so bad we had to endure Murray and Hemed playing together.
.

In real life though
When Baldock was injured late on last season, we endured Murray and Hemed tackling each other for 5 games in April and May (barring Akpom's unfortunate brief Blackburn cameo).
We won all of em, including a crucial Hemed goal v Brum and an assist for that Murray goal v QPR and Murray's crucial Wigan opener.
What a flipping disaster it was.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,523
Fiveways
Given we've been linked with numerous strikers this pre-season (although Abraham is the only out and out striker we've confirmed is/was a target) then you assume we're on lookout for one.
I guess a forward line of *new striker*, + Murray, + Hemed ? , with Brown, Gross, Baldock in that playing off the front role (#9 or #10) with potentially Murphy, Knockaert, March filling that role if required will be what the club is aiming at given that we're likely to be playing 4-4-1-1 rather than the 4-4-2 we favoured in Champ under Hughton in last 2 seasons.
And thats how we've set up in pre-season matches so far.

Some might argue we need new striker x 2 but presumably £££ burden means unlikely.
And assumption is Towell/Lua Lua out on loan/for sale.

My understanding here is slightly different. Gross and Brown are unlike Baldock, in that they are both tailor-made for the advanced '1' behind the striker in a 4-4-1-1 formation, whereas Baldock is a support striker in a 4-4-2 formation, so I wouldn't lump them altogether. CH has said quite clearly that our default formation will be 4-4-1-1 this season, and not the 4-4-2 that we have played for the last two seasons, as you indicate, although I suspect that when chasing games, we might revert to 4-4-2, which is when Baldock comes in to play.
If it is the case that we'll be playing 4-4-1-1 and, given that CH has said that we will, we have to assume that it will be the case (or mostly at least), then we need a different kind of forward to those that we've had playing 4-4-2. As you indicate, we're looking for one as the Abraham search indicated, but I suspect that we may well look for two and if we can get them, then we will offload Hemed (which will recuperate some of the outlay). But we shall see what transpires.
 

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,523
Fiveways
Are we trying to throw Izzy into every position we need a high quality signing? I guess that makes sense if we go into September without a new CM, Winger or Striker we can just say this lad can play there.

A number 9 he is not. Why do I feel like this is PR to sow the seed for "do we really need another Striker?" debates.

Why are you thinking this? There would be some mileage in the thought if CH had said that he was a number 9, but he's said that he doesn't view him as a number 9. It's Brown's ex-youth coach at Chelsea that has said this and, as [MENTION=25402]Blue Valkyrie[/MENTION] says, it's what CH says that matters not Brown's ex-coach.
 

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 27, 2012
13,750
I don't truly believe he thinks that our wide players (other than perhaps Murphy) are competitive in that position unless desperation calls. Hence why we've signed 2 of them so far this window.

Murphy or Brown or Gross can all play in that playing off the #9 position.
Hughton has tried March, Knockaert there as well because presumably he thinks it has merit.
I'd think he'd like us to buy another striker and winger this window as well to ensure he has plenty of 4-4-2 or more likely 4-4-1-1
But to argue that its not one of Hughton's preferred options and he's only picked formations like that to "appease" fans or because we didn't , in the end, sign Pritchard or because basically he's a liar is a bit of a stretch.
 


Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
13,707
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
My understanding here is slightly different. Gross and Brown are unlike Baldock, in that they are both tailor-made for the advanced '1' behind the striker in a 4-4-1-1 formation, whereas Baldock is a support striker in a 4-4-2 formation, so I wouldn't lump them altogether. CH has said quite clearly that our default formation will be 4-4-1-1 this season, and not the 4-4-2 that we have played for the last two seasons, as you indicate, although I suspect that when chasing games, we might revert to 4-4-2, which is when Baldock comes in to play.
If it is the case that we'll be playing 4-4-1-1 and, given that CH has said that we will, we have to assume that it will be the case (or mostly at least), then we need a different kind of forward to those that we've had playing 4-4-2. As you indicate, we're looking for one as the Abraham search indicated, but I suspect that we may well look for two and if we can get them, then we will offload Hemed (which will recuperate some of the outlay). But we shall see what transpires.

I make you spot on.
 

Nixonator

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2016
6,733
Shoreham Beach
Murphy or Brown or Gross can all play in that playing off the #9 position.
Hughton has tried March, Knockaert there as well because presumably he thinks it has merit.
I'd think he'd like us to buy another striker and winger this window as well to ensure he has plenty of 4-4-2 or more likely 4-4-1-1
But to argue that its not one of Hughton's preferred options and he's only picked formations like that to "appease" fans or because we didn't , in the end, sign Pritchard or because basically he's a liar is a bit of a stretch.

Desperation is probably a stretch yes. Perhaps he did think playing them there had genuine merit, but the fact he has not repeated playing either of them (Knocky, March) there again, and has signed 2 players in that position so far, would indicate it is not a preferred option as you suggest.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
Desperation is probably a stretch yes. Perhaps he did think playing them there had genuine merit, but the fact he has not repeated playing either of them (Knocky, March) there again, and has signed 2 players in that position so far, would indicate it is not a preferred option as you suggest.

Exactly.
 

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,529
Back in Sussex
You should take it up with Hughton then who obviously feels it has merit.

Hughton thought there was merit in bringing both Leon Best and Chuba Akpom to the club, and trying to play them both.

Don't get me wrong - I think Chris Hughton is fantastic and we are lucky to have him. However, I think it's quite possible to make the case that he may seem to have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to strikers!
 

Nixonator

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2016
6,733
Shoreham Beach
Why are you thinking this? There would be some mileage in the thought if CH had said that he was a number 9, but he's said that he doesn't view him as a number 9. It's Brown's ex-youth coach at Chelsea that has said this and, as [MENTION=25402]Blue Valkyrie[/MENTION] says, it's what CH says that matters not Brown's ex-coach.

Probably an irrational concern getting the better of me, I can just sense those vibes coming. Good to hear CH has gone on record saying he doesn't see him as a 9 though.
 

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 27, 2012
13,750
Hughton thought there was merit in bringing both Leon Best and Chuba Akpom to the club, and trying to play them both.

Don't get me wrong - I think Chris Hughton is fantastic and we are lucky to have him. However, I think it's quite possible to make the case that he may seem to have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to strikers!

And his last big striker signing in the Prem was of course Wolfswinkel :)

and of all things it was Grant Holt that kept Norwich up in 2012/13.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
It's seems quite possible that Baldock only got his contract extension because he was the last man standing, or in Baldock's case, lying on the physio's couch..

Buying, loaning or developing AMEX era strikers has been, in the main, pretty poor, made all the worse by that being the one deal that can transform a season/balance sheet.

The club must have looked at the prospect of buying 2 Premier League strikers shite itself so thought 'let's just give SB a new deal'.


I hope 'not doing a Middlesbrough' is high on Tony's wishlist.
 

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 27, 2012
13,750
Buying, loaning or developing AMEX era strikers has been, in the main, pretty poor, made all the worse by that being the one deal that can transform a season/balance sheet.

.

Sorry SB but another myth. We've spent far less than our other Champ rivals and again and again have found or stuck with strikers that transformed our season and our balance sheet.
Ulloa (financially and goals), Barnes, Hemed (bargain), Murray (bargain) and eventually Baldock (bargain) have all been arguably massive successes getting us in the play offs 3 times and promoted last season. Failing to land Pritchard in the end made no difference.
CMS is only the real big long term failure that cost us ££ with Oscar selling Barnes another error but its (mostly) loanees who've misfired. And most of those did a decent job (Bent,Vokes Lingard, Wilson) compared to the obvious mistakes like Best, Obika, Akpom and/or weren't here long enough/injured so its hard to judge.
The Grabban/Spanish Rodney fiasco being perhaps the only other (cheap) Oscar disaster. Not sure what we saw in Rodriguez.
But where are the long list of £5m, even £10m striker failures that are hallmarks of plenty of other Champ clubs ??
 

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