[Politics] It is time to end free speech

Green Cross Code Man · Mar 19, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
This with bells on. But once the speakers slip into defamation or incitement to violence they they should get nicked. The difficulty here is what constitutes defamation and incitement to violence. Reciting spells (aka 'prayers') that invoke lots of smiting, and rally cries about 'defending' by any means one's rights against the 'other' can get a bit near the knuckle.

ps who is Asim Qureshi? I looked him up. Nada.

I am a christian, well I try to be, and I wholeheartedly agree with your statement. I suppose that if I wished, I could indeed quote many inflammatory phrases from the bible that could justify 'bad' acts against my 'enemies' whoever they were. The point is, I understand the concept of context both historic and social when applied to reading the bible. I know this is also how things should work with Islam as well.

And [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]'s post is, as you say, spot on.

Buzzer · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
what is it that you find so objectionable about tommy robinson ?

I said 'most' of them! I've not watched any of his videos about Islam so can't comment. I meant that I'd defend his right to express his opinions, the same as you, me and everyone else.

The Clamp · Mar 19, 2018

pastafarian said:
Except he doesnt tell people not to trust muslims,he is quite clear his stance is against the ideology of Islam. Obviously separate standpoints unless of course you intentionally choose to muddy the waters.

Only going from the bits I've seen posted on here and I think I once saw him on the KIlroy Silk show. Can't say I'm overly impressed with what I have seen. I can't see myself researching him any further either. He seems to be antagonistic.

jonnyrovers · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
yes we do, where do you live as a matter of interest ? i take it you live in an area with a large muslim poulation and youre happy with that ?

Are you suggesting that anyone living in an area with a significant Muslim population is likely to support the views of Robinson?

I lived the first 22 years of my life in a large town in South Yorkshire. Massive ethnic population from all faiths. Together we fought against the southern coppers financed by thatcher to smash the picket lines. I wasn’t a miner but many in my family were. Muslims, Hindus, Seikhs stood together, united by a common purpose and faced oppression. Didn’t go too well mind....

Here we are 35 years later and the demographics of Doncaster are pretty much the same but the solidarity is gone and the hatred is palpable.

Something is responsible for that shift & it isn’t the violence of a few religious nut jobs, it’s the rhetoric of the racists and fascists that have been waiting like sleeper cells to be mobilised.

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alfredmizen · Mar 19, 2018

Buzzer said:
I said 'most' of them! I've not watched any of his videos about Islam so can't comment. I meant that I'd defend his right to express his opinions, the same as you, me and everyone else.

i know mate but youve previously said hes not your cup of tea , i genuinely wonder why , im not having a dig.

alfredmizen · Mar 19, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
Are you suggesting that anyone living in an area with a significant Muslim population is likely to support the views of Robinson?

I lived the first 22 years of my life in a large town in South Yorkshire. Massive ethnic population from all faiths. Together we fought against the southern coppers financed by thatcher to smash the picket lines. I wasn’t a miner but many in my family were. Muslims, Hindus, Seikhs stood together, united by a common purpose and faced oppression. Didn’t go too well mind....

Here we are 35 years later and the demographics of Doncaster are pretty much the same but the solidarity is gone and the hatred is palpable.

Something is responsible for that shift & it isn’t the violence of a few religious nut jobs, it’s the rhetoric of the racists and fascists that have been waiting like sleeper cells to be mobilised.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for what its worth i suppported the miners , but youve just proved youre a chip on the shoulder "when ah were a lad" yorkshire bellend with your southern coppers comment , i also think your "togetherness".claim is either bollocks or rose tinted glasses , whats caused the shift is the. constant "muslim anger" "demands" and ever increasing refusal to be part of mainstream society .

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
for what its worth i suppported the miners , but youve just proved youre a chip on the shoulder "when ah were a lad" yorkshire bellend with your southern coppers comment , i also think your "togetherness".claim is either bollocks or rose tinted glasses , whats caused the shift is the. constant "muslim anger" "demands" and ever increasing refusal to be part of mainstream society .

Panorama in Blackburn showed exactly this
regards
DR

alfredmizen · Mar 19, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
Panorama in Blackburn showed exactly this
regards
DR

yep

Buzzer · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
i know mate but youve previously said hes not your cup of tea , i genuinely wonder why , im not having a dig.

Partly it's the association with EDL. I'm sure there's people in that group who are peace-loving and utterly sincere but from what I've seen for many it's an excuse for a ruck, the same as I view Antifa. It's also riddled with far-right activists. I've a lot more time for the Football Lads Alliance having heard the bloke who started talk about what it is and what it isn't. Still very early days but there's a lot of goodwill there, I'll take what he says at face value and if he can get rid of the far-right leeches trying to hijack it (like Toni Bugle) and do his utmost to get as many football fans from different backgrounds and ethnicities then he could have something that's very positive.

I also avoid the Tommy Robinson videos because of his extremely close associations with Alex Jones at InfoWars and Paul Joseph Watson at Prison Planet. They're both conspiracy theory junkies and I really can't take them seriously.

I also disagree with this approach that it's a war between Muslims and the rest of us. I used to work for a company that was 40% Muslim employees and they fell into two types - the sort that believe the Koran is infallible and have pretty much a closed mind and the other sort were Muslim to a degree but fully integrated and just another tolerant and liberal-minded Brit like the rest of us. Both groups distrust and dislike Tommy Robinson and are afraid of him. If we're going to eliminate Islamic extremism in the UK then I think we need to build trust and dialogue. As I say, I've not watched the videos but I've seen commentaries and read reviews and his approach does sound as if he believes it's a war. If I've got it wrong then I'll apologise.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 19, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
Are you suggesting that anyone living in an area with a significant Muslim population is likely to support the views of Robinson?

I lived the first 22 years of my life in a large town in South Yorkshire. Massive ethnic population from all faiths. Together we fought against the southern coppers financed by thatcher to smash the picket lines. I wasn’t a miner but many in my family were. Muslims, Hindus, Seikhs stood together, united by a common purpose and faced oppression. Didn’t go too well mind....

Here we are 35 years later and the demographics of Doncaster are pretty much the same but the solidarity is gone and the hatred is palpable.

Something is responsible for that shift & it isn’t the violence of a few religious nut jobs, it’s the rhetoric of the racists and fascists that have been waiting like sleeper cells to be mobilised.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something is responsible for that shift but according to you it's not the numerous 'home grown' terrorists killing UK citizens, nothing to do with a religion that has misogyny, homophobia, us and them at its core, sexual abuse gangs mainly targeting vulnerable white girls in numerous cities, growth of Wahhabism ... it's the rhetoric from racists that is the real problem. Give your head a wobble. :facepalm:

Charlies Shinpad · Mar 19, 2018

God knows what you youngsters would have made of Enoch Powell

spence · Mar 19, 2018

Buzzer said:
Partly it's the association with EDL. I'm sure there's people in that group who are peace-loving and utterly sincere but from what I've seen for many it's an excuse for a ruck, the same as I view Antifa. It's also riddled with far-right activists. I've a lot more time for the Football Lads Alliance having heard the bloke who started talk about what it is and what it isn't. Still very early days but there's a lot of goodwill there, I'll take what he says at face value and if he can get rid of the far-right leeches trying to hijack it (like Toni Bugle) and do his utmost to get as many football fans from different backgrounds and ethnicities then he could have something that's very positive.

I also avoid the Tommy Robinson videos because of his extremely close associations with Alex Jones at InfoWars and Paul Joseph Watson at Prison Planet. They're both conspiracy theory junkies and I really can't take them seriously.

I also disagree with this approach that it's a war between Muslims and the rest of us. I used to work for a company that was 40% Muslim employees and they fell into two types - the sort that believe the Koran is infallible and have pretty much a closed mind and the other sort were Muslim to a degree but fully integrated and just another tolerant and liberal-minded Brit like the rest of us. Both groups distrust and dislike Tommy Robinson and are afraid of him. If we're going to eliminate Islamic extremism in the UK then I think we need to build trust and dialogue. As I say, I've not watched the videos but I've seen commentaries and read reviews and his approach does sound as if he believes it's a war. If I've got it wrong then I'll apologise.

Pre judging him basically then ? Why not watch a few of his videos and come to your own conclusion? Robinson is probably the most lied about bloke in the UK.

RexCathedra · Mar 19, 2018

spence said:
Robinson is probably the most lied about bloke in the UK.

Loved him in Blackadder, and Time Team.

shingle · Mar 19, 2018

Prepare for round two. Tommy's back in the park next Sunday at 3pm

Buzzer · Mar 19, 2018

spence said:
Pre judging him basically then ? Why not watch a few of his videos and come to your own conclusion? Robinson is probably the most lied about bloke in the UK.

Perhaps I am but quite honestly I'm not too fussed because there are plenty of other people such as Anni Cyrus, Douglas Murray and Maajid Nawaz fighting Islamic extremism who I'd much rather listen to. I watched a fair few interviews with Robinson after I read about the Cambridge incident and I think he is getting unfairly targeted, I said that previously and I back his right to express his opinions completely. I've absolutely no beef with the bloke. From what I have seen and read and what I do know about him and of the people he associates with, he's just not for me.

spence · Mar 19, 2018

Buzzer said:
Perhaps I am but quite honestly I'm not too fussed because there are plenty of other people such as Douglas Murray and Maajid Nawaz fighting Islamic extremism who I'd much rather listen to. I watched a fair few interviews with Robinson after I read about the Cambridge incident and I think he is getting unfairly targeted, I said that previously and I back his right to express his opinions completely. I've absolutely no beef with the bloke. From what I have seen and read and what I do know about him and of the people he associates with, he's just not for me.

Don't get me wrong he can be a tit. He bangs on about Islam but admits himself he has holidayed a few times in Dubai.

jonnyrovers · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
for what its worth i suppported the miners , but youve just proved youre a chip on the shoulder "when ah were a lad" yorkshire bellend with your southern coppers comment , i also think your "togetherness".claim is either bollocks or rose tinted glasses , whats caused the shift is the. constant "muslim anger" "demands" and ever increasing refusal to be part of mainstream society .

The coppers were drafted in from the Met & home counties. That's a fact. They waved their wads of overtime cash in the faces of broken men. I despised Scargill for his refusal to compromise as much as I despised Thatcher. I don't hold grudges. I feel differently now thanks to 'free speech' and being able to consider arguments that challenge and inform my beliefs. Since living down here I've been educated by men that mined coal in Kent & suffered too. That's not what this is about though.

You never saw a Muslim in the Miners Welfare Club. It wasn't some pansy modern 'hashtagtogetherness' for you to ridicule. It was harder times than you can imagine, and everyone involved suffered regardless of ethnicity or faith. Your wish to belittle it means nothing to me. It is what it is.

Can you tell me how a community such as that in my home town, where the demographic of asian faiths hasn't changed in half a century, has turned in to what it has?

Cheshire Cat · Mar 19, 2018

alfredmizen said:
what is it that you find so objectionable about tommy robinson ?

Everything.

Where has the OP gone? Starts a thread and can't be bothered to hang around and defend his/her/its point of view.

jonnyrovers · Mar 19, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Something is responsible for that shift but according to you it's not the numerous 'home grown' terrorists killing UK citizens, nothing to do with a religion that has misogyny, homophobia, us and them at its core, sexual abuse gangs mainly targeting vulnerable white girls in numerous cities, growth of Wahhabism ... it's the rhetoric from racists that is the real problem. Give your head a wobble.

I'm open to considering any view that challenges my own, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the crimes you reference are exclusively down to faith. Those crimes are the work of criminals, and for what it's worth I could argue that what you described just then was catholicism.

BadFish · Mar 19, 2018

spence said:
Pre judging him basically then ? Why not watch a few of his videos and come to your own conclusion? Robinson is probably the most lied about bloke in the UK.

I have watched a few of his videos and from what I have seen Buzzer's summary is pretty much spot on.

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