[Politics] Brexit

Maldini · Jun 14, 2016

lawros left foot said:
Hit a nerve, have I?

No.Sorry.However obviously us Little Englanders(Shouldn't that be Little Britainers?) have with you.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 14, 2016

sussex_guy2k2 said:
The notion that The Sun are doing any of this for any other reason than to appeal to it's racist readership to further it's own xenophobic overtones is nothing short of ignorant.

That is not the only reason.

'It' backs Brexit, as Murdoch feels he stands to be financially better off,

DavidinSouthampton · Jun 14, 2016

hans kraay fan club said:
That is not the only reason.

'It' backs Brexit, as Murdoch feels he stands to be financially better off,

Oh, how cynical,...... but true, I fear.

Which raises the question if it's true, is it cynical to say it.

disgruntled h blocker · Jun 14, 2016

The Sun backing a Brexit obviously has NOTHING to do with it being owned by the Murdoch's who have been stung time and time again by the courts in the UK and EU for trying to control the media industry

Two Professors · Jun 14, 2016

Brighton Lines said:
You'll probably be seeing a lot more of it.

Why,can't your boss come up with anything new?

Two Professors · Jun 14, 2016

Jim in the West said:
Ipsos Mori did an interesting piece of work a few weeks ago, asking people various questions on the EU. The level of ignorance was unbelievable. The avge Brit thinks the EU spends 27% of its budget on Admin (the actual figure is 6%). In terms of inward investment from the EU, the average Leave voter thinks the EU accounts for 28% of such investment - whereas it's really 48%. Regarding EU immigrants, on average we think they comprise 15% of the population (Vote Leavers think 20%) - the actual figure is 5%. Most people think the largest number of EU immigrants come from Eastern Europe - whereas those from Western Europe are more numerous (immigrants from Ireland, Germany, Italy, France and Spain alone comprise 1.1m of our population). Apparently 40% of Brits think EU immigrants are sending an average of 20% of their child benefit back home. The actual figure is 0.3%.

If we vote Brexit there will be large numbers of people who do so on the basis of false (some would say malicious) anti-EU rhetoric. I would also say (being a "Remainer"), that the Remain camp are not guilt-free either. But the evidence from the surveys is that people are more negatively mis-informed about the EU than positively mis-informed.

Hiding reality with percentages only works so far and for so long.The figure the EU spends on admin,for example,is 6% of 155 BILLION Euros-a mountain of paper-clips!

Machiavelli · Jun 14, 2016

Buzzer said:
To paraphrase Sadiq Khan, "working class boy, middle class man."

Fortunately it means that I don't have that middle-class liberal guilt about hating what the working-class in the UK stands for.

This characterisation suggests that the forthcoming referendum is sneakily a(nother) issue pitching the working class against the middle class (with you abandoning your new position to side with your roots in an act of sacrifice).
It also suggests that you and Sadiq Khan should be congratulated for achieving upward mobility -- which is all the more impressive given that socioeconomic mobility has been drastically curtailed in the last few decades.

brightn'ove · Jun 14, 2016

I find it incredibly sad that people have been 'waiting their entire adult life' for this.

ROSM · Jun 14, 2016

Two Professors said:
EXPLAINING reality with FACTS AND percentages only works so far and for so long GIVEN IVE STUCK MY FINGERS IN MY EARS AND AM NOW SHOUTING BLAH BLAH BLAH.The figure the EU spends on admin,for example,is 6% of 155 BILLION Euros-a mountain of paper-clips BECAUSE ADMIN CLEARLY DOESNT INCLUDE OTHER THINGS LIKE PEOPLE, BUILDINGS, CARBON PAPER

I've corrected it for you

Wrong-Direction · Jun 14, 2016

Has it ever occurred to anyone that newspapers are full of shit and you shouldn't believe everything you read?

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Two Professors · Jun 14, 2016

ROSM said:
I've corrected it for you

Very kind of you,and I hope you have a swift recovery :wave:

Two Professors · Jun 14, 2016

Wrong-Direction said:
Has it ever occurred to anyone that newspapers are full of shit and you shouldn't believe everything you read?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Ah,but a lot of people,including Sun journos living in Brighton,Seaford,and Peacehaven,might be unemployed if nobody read the press!

fat old seagull · Jun 14, 2016

hans kraay fan club said:
I'm unfamiliar with the phrase.

The whole thing is massively depressing - so many people on BOTH sides, making their decisions based on ignorance, prejudice and misinformation.

'cept me of course! :lolol:

Wrong-Direction · Jun 14, 2016

Two Professors said:
Ah,but a lot of people,including Sun journos living in Brighton,Seaford,and Peacehaven,might be unemployed if nobody read the press!

Good, let people find out things for themselves

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Kalimantan Gull · Jun 14, 2016

larus said:
Thank you for assuming you know my position, which, you are wrong on. I'm not expecting a Brexit vote to result in a 10m reduction in our population. However, we would be in a position to decide if we wish to remove a number of EU immigrants from the country. But, the reality of this is that it won't happen overnight and it won't be an easy process. It also shouldn't be the desired solution, due to the knock-on effects on the economy. It would allow a control om further immigration, and a review process of existing workers. Some, may choose to leave of their own accord, but we just don't know.

I think your position is the same as mine, as you said in your original post: "people see immigration everywhere. They see in in house prices; they see it waiting times at doctors; they see in in school places. Some of this may be anecdotal, but it's tangible. The problem is the the Remain is all projection. The immigration is real and impacts people's lives. I agree that some immigration is good for the economy, but the numbers which we have had over the past 10-12 years (around 10m people) are just too many."

I personally am in 100% agreement with that statement of yours, and if there was a solution that saw a significant reverse in immigrant numbers I could consider voting Leave. However I believe that we will not see a decrease in the number of immigrants already here once we have exited the EU, and the statements from many other Brexiteers on this thread, such as pastafarian, acknowledge that. With that in mind I have no hesitation in voting Remain because of the good the EU does in other areas of our lives.

Eeyore · Jun 14, 2016

Two Professors said:
Why,can't your boss come up with anything new?

Are you the new [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], but without the kind regards ? I was worried for him as he has been a little under the weather recently. I wondered if he has finally handed the baton over. Don't call me a 'din' though- I'll only take that from Das.

Kalimantan Gull · Jun 14, 2016

beorhthelm said:
its not just likely, its highly probable. firstly the EU has form for ignoring the results of referenda. secondly we dont know the outcome of the negotiations. its quite likely they could result in a new treaty to formally recognise a form of membership with free trade, sans so much control from Brussels, with restructured contributions (probably similar net), a reworking of freedom of movement to emphasis on labour (as its supposed to be originally, you can move freely as long as you have financial means to do so). it would look too close to remain to just pass through parliament so be put forward in a new referendum.

Depends if Boris forces out Cameron or not. If he succeeds, then as the guy doing the negotiations he would either be (a) not interested in agreeing a new Treaty similar to the current EU relationship, or (b) would pass any such Treaty off as fulfilling the wishes of the Leave campaign and thus wouldn't need a new referendum

heathgate · Jun 14, 2016

Jim in the West said:
Unfortunately, if we vote for a Brexit we do not know what we are voting for, because the Vote Leave campaign has not told us the model we will adopt. This, in my view, is a massive "get out clause" for the Remain camp if the Brexit vote actually happens.

Get out of what....?

There is no way we will vote Leave then continue to allow uncontrolled EU migration... defeats the object.

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Two Professors · Jun 14, 2016

No,I don't make any type of jam!Maybe I should change my name to Totenkopf,to wind a few people up-very easy on here,if you feel that way inclined!

heathgate · Jun 14, 2016

sussex_guy2k2 said:
So your argument for why people should not believe experts in their field is that The Sun newspaper MAY be right about something for the first time?

If you'd said "The Sun are backing Brexit for xenophobic and racial reasons, as they have been for the last 40 years, and I agree with said reasoning", then at least you'd have garnered respect for your honesty. The notion that The Sun are doing any of this for any other reason than to appeal to it's racist readership to further it's own xenophobic overtones is nothing short of ignorant.

What is the matter with you?... your bigoted generalisations are tedious and tenuous.... casually throwing in the racist card at every opportunity in the hope it will support your agenda... must try harder matey.

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