catalonia independence vote......

cunning fergus · Oct 4, 2017

Green Cross Code Man said:
So you haven't been one of the many remainer posters on here who has complained and said he has a cheek to show up in the European parliament then?

This.

And on the issue of Spain and Catalonia, he is absolutely correct.

Incidentally, Juncker won't be a very happy man this morning as tax deals with Amazon made whilst he was prime minister of Luxembourg, are being investigated as illegal. Doesn't that place him in the same set of elite financiers?

Great point, Juncker is the high priest of tax avoidance.

I have my doubts that a man so central to the whole corporate brass plating arrangement could be now behind a move to recoup tax avoided.

There are some very good headlines about the EU becoming muscular about this, however behind the headlines will Amazon Google et al actually be paying the money back?

I doubt it........something maybe but enough to save face for Juncker and not enough to ultimately piss off the big swinging corporate dicks that the EU will soon be back to greedily sucking.

Colonel Angus · Oct 4, 2017

Pavilionaire said:
That Catalonia, it's all over the front page.

I see what you did there (and I like it).

Hampster Gull · Oct 4, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
Given you don't even live on the continent that is affected by the EU let alone the UK or Spain your whining is a bit rich.

Congratulations, you could challenge Trump with that level of ineptitude :clap:

nicko31 · Oct 11, 2017

Surely they need two referendums ...

a) Does Catalonia want to leave Spain?

b) Does Spain want to leave Catalonia?

If they both agree, go separate ways

Still find it bizarre Scotland should be allowed to leave UK without consent from the rest of the UK.

Where will it end. Brighton and Hove to get independence from the UK?

You can making tin pot nations forever

beorhthelm · Oct 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Surely they need two referendums ...

seems to be an obsession with some to having multiple referendums. the basic premise is that of self-determination, if you have an outside group voting on whether you stay or go, then you are no long self-determining.

nicko31 · Oct 11, 2017

beorhthelm said:
seems to be an obsession with some to having multiple referendums. the basic premise is that of self-determination, if you have an outside group voting on whether you stay or go, then you are no long self-determining.

Referendums are a blunt tool, we're seen it with Brexit, we seen it in Scotland and now we've seen it in Spain.

In the case of Spain why shouldn't the people of Spain be asked if they want their country fractured, seems perfectly reasonable

Common as Mook · Oct 11, 2017

It's all over the front page. This referendum is certainly giving some, road rage.

wardy wonder land · Oct 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
In the case of Spain why shouldn't the people of Spain be asked if they want their country fractured, seems perfectly reasonable

That would be quite intresting at the "next" scottish indy vote, if the whole of the UK got to vote if they stayed or went......

....my money would be the majority of "non-scotch" would vote to bin them off

nicko31 · Oct 11, 2017

wardy wonder land said:
That would be quite intresting at the "next" scottish indy vote, if the whole of the UK got to vote if they stayed or went......

....my money would be the majority of "non-scotch" would vote to bin them off

We'd only have a vote if they chose to leave. The silent majority should have a say

Agree reckon if the Scots said YES, the English would say off you go then.

Thecoffeecake · Oct 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Referendums are a blunt tool, we're seen it with Brexit, we seen it in Scotland and now we've seen it in Spain.

In the case of Spain why shouldn't the people of Spain be asked if they want their country fractured, seems perfectly reasonable

It's not "perfectly reasonable". The Catalans, and every minority shoe-horned into a federation where they're marginalized or their voice or customs are muted have the right to decide how they're governed. All people should. It's protected under international law. The most ludicrous part of this whole thing are the constant reminders about what the Spanish constitution says about all this, the very document of law Catalans are rejecting.

In my opinion, every minority group in the world should exercise self-determination. Every culture should have an independent homeland that represents their people on an international scale. It's not up to Spain or Europe or Washington. At least it shouldn't be.

As far as the soccer, La Liga will very obviously be amending its bylaws to allow Catalan clubs to compete. The country loses enough with Catalan independence, it surely won't let Barça walk, too. Worst case, I'd imagine France would absorb the Catalan clubs, it just makes the most sense. I honestly don't see why anyone in Britain would want Barcelona competing in the Premier League. I'm not British, but I would want the national integrity of the system maintained. An English team every year would lose out on PL revenue, and that's not considering the fact that if the FA accepts Barça, that probably comes with allowing all Catalan teams to compete in Britain I'd imagine, at least all the fully professional ones.

Triggaaar · Oct 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Ukip MEPs attend the fewest European Parliament votes of any party in the EU's 28 countries. Farage, participation of EU votes 38% (745th place), number of MEP's 751. He's no fisherman's friend

He may not be popular, but he's a breath of fresh air.

I really should apologise for that.

LlcoolJ · Oct 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
He may not be popular, but he's a breath of fresh air.

I reckon his breath stinks of stale fags.

Norman Potting · Oct 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
He may not be popular, but he's a breath of fresh air.

Because he gets up everyone's nose .......

larus · Oct 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Referendums are a blunt tool, we're seen it with Brexit, we seen it in Scotland and now we've seen it in Spain.

In the case of Spain why shouldn't the people of Spain be asked if they want their country fractured, seems perfectly reasonable

If you’re members of something (a state/country, or a club), then you can be expelled by the other members or you can choose to leave. It’s absolutely insane to propose that someone/area can’t leave.

It’s a dumb a a golf club telling me I can’t leave as the other members don’t want me to go.

I think the Catalonian government have take a sensible path. Advised Spain that they have a democratic mandate (it’s not the Catalans fault that the Spanish government were too heavy handed), but then said that they want dialogue.

Albion Dan · Oct 11, 2017

larus said:
If you’re members of something (a state/country, or a club), then you can be expelled by the other members or you can choose to leave. It’s absolutely insane to propose that someone/area can’t leave.

It’s a dumb a a golf club telling me I can’t leave as the other members don’t want me to go.

I think the Catalonian government have take a sensible path. Advised Spain that they have a democratic mandate (it’s not the Catalans fault that the Spanish government were too heavy handed), but then said that they want dialogue.

What a load of nonsense. Catalonia has been part of Spain since the 15th century in a similar way to some counties being formed within England in the middle ages. Do you think if Cornwall decided they wanted to leave the country and just decided to have a referendum off their own back that the Government would let them just leave?

half time scores · Oct 12, 2017

Its time for less talk, action is what is needed!

I will be seriously considering my marmalade choices in future.

Simster · Oct 12, 2017

Albion Dan said:
What a load of nonsense. Catalonia has been part of Spain since the 15th century in a similar way to some counties being formed within England in the middle ages. Do you think if Cornwall decided they wanted to leave the country and just decided to have a referendum off their own back that the Government would let them just leave?

The problem here is that Catalonia (like half of Spain) is recognised as a nation within a nation, yet that same constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation. To me, they appear to be contradictory and a direct result of a country facing up to a fascist dictatorial past. If Spain is indeed a nation within a nation, then the people need some element of self-determination, otherwise it is not democratic.

I agree with you that a simple yes/no referendum was the wrong way to go about things (as is usually the case in a parliamentary democracy), but the Spanish nation certainly needs to address the contradiction, devolve power, and provide a mechanism where the people can have self-determination.

larus · Oct 12, 2017

Albion Dan said:
What a load of nonsense. Catalonia has been part of Spain since the 15th century in a similar way to some counties being formed within England in the middle ages. Do you think if Cornwall decided they wanted to leave the country and just decided to have a referendum off their own back that the Government would let them just leave?

What does it matter - 100, 200, 500 years? Totally irrelevant. Borders and countries are not 'fixed' - they change. It used to be Czechoslovakia but this then changed and split. Look at the Kurds now demanding their own state. The Palestinians. Borders and countries and not fixed concepts.

If a region wishes to be an independent country, I fail to see that other part should have the power to block them. But, they need to accept the consequences of their actions and not cherry pick (like the SNP wanted to do).

Regarding Cornwall, if that's what they want then I see no real problem, but they would need their own government, police, army, health service, etc.

larus · Oct 27, 2017

Still brewing up here. Declared independence now. Can't see a peaceful resolution here - handled badly on all parties, but mainly Spain IMO.

RandyWanger · Oct 27, 2017

How long before Spain fires the Calatan leaders and takes control of it's finances and media? Not going to end well this.

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catalonia independence vote......

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