God help him.
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Agnostic vs Atheist
- Thread starter maffew
- Start date
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
Aye, that's the trouble when you put a label on something and call it a thing, people can get very possessive and precious about it. That's always been my beef with the more rampant Atheists, they end up sounding like the religious zealots they are dumbfounded by.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Mejona's question of the day
Do people who believe in god (and him creating the world and jesus n all that), not believe in dinosaurs?
Do people who believe in god (and him creating the world and jesus n all that), not believe in dinosaurs?
half time scores
Well-known member
At least atheism is non prophet.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
The difference is the universe didn't create itself.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
To all intents and purposes it did though. One minute there was nothing, then a big bang and then a universe. Something came from nothing.
I know you were not asking me but my take on this is that Atheists do not claim the big bang to be fact, the science suggests this is the very best theory we have at the moment, the empirical evidence is strong but what created/caused/came before it we cannot answer, as science and new developments progress then there is flexibility to change our minds and perhaps look back at previous 'knowledge' as incorrect. There is a flexibility and acceptance to say 'we do not know....yet'
Compare that to the inflexibility of religion, the belief that God created us and put your fingers in your ears if there is a suggestion as to where God came from or who created God. There is no flexibility to consider an alternative or change your mind as new evidence and findings develop. It is a conservative force.
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I asked this question to the jehovah's witnesses that come a knocking, and they said they do believe in dinosaurs. The don't believe in evolution though, they believe that god created man on the 6th day (presumably dinosaurs a bit earlier, even though other land creatures were also created on the 6th day). But they usually say that his days are not the same as our days, or some such BS, to allow for the fact that the dinos had all gone. It's much like talking to the conspiracy theorists.
To play devils advocate, if we saw complete agnosticism as being bang in the middle of the see-saw, surely you must have a learning one way towards a god existing or not existing. Where for example would you put yourself on Dawkins 7 point scale (this could be a poll in fact).
Uncle C
Well-known member
I have an open mind about God, but hate everything about the Church.
You're not feeling the energy.
Pevenseagull
Anti-greed coalition
- Jul 20, 2003
- 19,612
#teamBR
highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,434
More of an issue of definition then,. My atheism relates to a 'God' that can be defined and understood by humans, as that seems to be the focus of most theists
Why do you think people are annoyed? I'm really not annoyed by what others believe.
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It does? I hadn't realised I was annoyed
Withdean11
Well-known member
I tend to just ask them (all religions) why they believe in God. I have not yet heard one reasonable answer and none of them have told me the truth of "my Mum and Dad told me to".
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Now, this is the bit where the religious world literally jumped upon the big bang and singularity theory, because here was a concept that could easily be pointed at as 'who put it there, or who made the big bang', only this was merely a break down of our physics or best model in general relativity and our initial understanding of quantum mechanics.
At the time of observing the known universe, seeing the back ground radiation, and working back toward providing evidence the universe began as a singularity, unfortunately the physics stopped there, general relativity beaks down completely with the singularity, so science didn't, and couldn't go back further. That doesn't mean there is no further back, or that there could be physics to explain how the singularity existing or came to be. We know space time breaks down at this level, but then at this level quantum mechanics starts to get very weird with 2 things existing in 2 different places at the same time because space time doesn't behave in the same way.
You say nothing, it isn't that there is nothing, there is just nothing to measure, we can only theorise. Could be that the universe does go through infinite expansion and collapses. We'll maybe find out one day, I don't think there is any reason to conclude some supernatural nudge occurred though just to fill the knowledge gap.
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
Personally, in the rare moments I do think about this question these days for the aforementioned reasons, I vary between 6 and 5 depending on my mood. I tend to find absolutism off-putting at either end of the scale, with this and most other things.
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,071
I love the idea there’s ‘community service’ in heaven!Well yeah, you've got unrealistic expectations if you're hoping anyone will have a good reason.
I offer these poor people a chance of salvation - to see the light and stop wasting their lives. They don't have to take it.
