Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,345
Chandlers Ford
Green Cross Code Man said:
I agree, the referendum act was badly flawed. But still, everyone knew what the referendum meant.
Click to expand...

They didn't though. And they still don't, six months later.

I genuinely believe that a great many were focused on freedom of movement / control of immigration - this is what sections of the media led them to believe they were voting for, by ticking the 'Leave' box. Now we have a situation where we don't know if that is what Article 50 means at all, as more likely is that we will end up with a compromise where we are still IN the common market, where we STILL pay our dues into it, and do NOT get to limit movement of people.

That is absolutely NOT what (many) people voted for.
 








Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
mikeyjh said:
I agree, and that is wholly correct and proper don't you think?
Click to expand...
I think it is an unnecessary distraction caused by a poor bill, the referendum act. I don't think it will halt Brexit. So although by the letter I agree, in spirit I don't as MPs already voted 6 to 1 in favour of the referendum bill (simply not understanding that remain might lose). That prior vote, should be enough, in my opinion, to enact article 50.

Interestingly, the author of article 50 earlier on said that a state could leave without invoking it anyway.
 


Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
JCL666 said:
My understanding of the Lord Chief Justice quote I added previously is that parliament have to vote on allowing the government to trigger Article 50. That may mean something beyond just scrutiny.

As for the referendum bill. No I didn't agree with it, but it happened so I voted.

They wouldn't be overturning Brexit, they would be considering the outcome of the referendum, as well as other factors prior to voting. Whatever the outcome, as I said before, I would rather that it went through due process, otherwise there would be more challenges to it.
Click to expand...
That is not how the BBC is seeing it.
 




Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,588
Green Cross Code Man said:
We do want parliamentary democracy. It was a democratic act of parliament that voted through the referendum act. The referendum was clear in its question and clear in its answer. We only have this obsession now about 'parliamentary democracy' from remainers as it is the only way that they see the process being impeded. Parliamentary democracy is the excuse being bandied around as an excuse to get the 'right' result. A truly EU trait.
Click to expand...

Utter rubbish. We fought a civil war in order for Parliament to win the right to make the laws of this land. It is not for the likes of Theresa May to bypass Parliament over something as crucial as the trigger for Brexit.

I will abide by the decision reached by Parliament over the invoking of Article 50 and if that means they vote to invoke it then as a citizen of a Parliamentary democracy then so be it.

As for sovereignty, how the Leave campaign had the temerity to link Leave with a preservation of sovereignty, then to seek to bypass Parliament in a matter as important as this is duplicitous in the extreme.
 


Notters

Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,869
Guiseley
hans kraay fan club said:
They didn't though. And they still don't, six months later.

I genuinely believe that a great many were focused on freedom of movement / control of immigration - this is what sections of the media led them to believe they were voting for, by ticking the 'Leave' box. Now we have a situation where we don't know if that is what Article 50 means at all, as more likely is that we will end up with a compromise where we are still IN the common market, where we STILL pay our dues into it, and do NOT get to limit movement of people.

That is absolutely NOT what (many) people voted for.
Click to expand...
...and likely considerably more than previously...
 


Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
hans kraay fan club said:
They didn't though. And they still don't, six months later.

I genuinely believe that a great many were focused on freedom of movement / control of immigration - this is what sections of the media led them to believe they were voting for, by ticking the 'Leave' box. Now we have a situation where we don't know if that is what Article 50 means at all, as more likely is that we will end up with a compromise where we are still IN the common market, where we STILL pay our dues into it, and do NOT get to limit movement of people.

That is absolutely NOT what (many) people voted for.
Click to expand...
You are misunderstanding me. I have repeatedly stated on NSC that absolutely no one knew what leaving would mean. But by the same token, no one knew what staying would mean either.

Everyone knew that if they voted leave, that they supported leaving the EU. Voters voting remain, wanted to stay in the EU. It was quite simple.
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Stato said:
At first glance it seems to me that, unless the government wins on appeal, it may allow for more democratic accountability. At the moment we have a referendum vote that asked leave or remain and leave won. Subsequent to that the talk has been as to whether the leave vote gave a mandate for a hard exit: i.e. leave the single market in order to prevent free movement of labour. Despite the fact that the leave campaign continually said that the country wouldn't have to make this choice, but could get both things, the government says the referendum vote gives a mandate for the hard version, but this has not been tested in parliament or through a referendum.

In all honesty I can't see that the numbers for hard exit add up. With 48% voting for remain presumably preferring to retain the single market, it only requires 5.77% of the 52% who voted leave to prefer the 'soft' option and the mandate would be for soft exit. i.e. paying for continued membership of the single market, which would have to come with acceptance of free movement, which would mean that the country has gone through all of this to achieve next to nothing but giving up its voting rights at the EU parliament.

Apparently the bookies have halved the odds for a second referendum and there is talk of an early election. This would require a two thirds majority vote, so would need Labour support. You would think they won't support it, but some of them might see an early election smashing as preferable to another four years of Corbyn leadership followed by an election smashing.
Click to expand...

Wonder if any statisticians have looked at the percentage of people who didn't vote,or voted remain,because Project Fear actually worked on some.Perhaps an honest campaign might have had a much clearer margin for Leave!
 




Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
Pavilionaire said:
Utter rubbish. We fought a civil war in order for Parliament to win the right to make the laws of this land. It is not for the likes of Theresa May to bypass Parliament over something as crucial as the trigger for Brexit.
Click to expand...

So you don't think the act of parliament, that brought the referendum act into being is worth regarding? You think that the vote which brought something which you don't like isn't worth respecting? The referendum act was crucial but you want to ignore it.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,345
Chandlers Ford
Notters said:
...and likely considerably more than previously...
Click to expand...

Indeed.

The likes of bushy will refuse to believe it, but I'd entirely accept a Leave vote, had it been 60%+ and had the question actually set out even the broadest idea of terms of exit.

What would the %s have been if the question had read:

Should the UK...
A. Stay in the EU under the current terms
B. Forego our voting rights in the EU parliament, but continue to pay the same dues, and be bound by the same freedom of movement rules as currently exist
 


Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
hans kraay fan club said:
Indeed.

The likes of bushy will refuse to believe it, but I'd entirely accept a Leave vote, had it been 60%+ and had the question actually set out even the broadest idea of terms of exit.

What would the %s have been if the question had read:

Should the UK...
A. Stay in the EU under the current terms
B. Forego our voting rights in the EU parliament, but continue to pay the same dues, and be bound by the same freedom of movement rules as currently exist
Click to expand...
On point 2. How many people would vote simply because they like freedom of movement?
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
Green Cross Code Man said:
I agree, the referendum act was badly flawed. But still, everyone knew what the referendum meant.
Click to expand...

that will be argued till the Ragnarok, the legislation didn't explicitly deal with the outcome and make it legally binding.
 






Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,588
Green Cross Code Man said:
So you don't think the act of parliament, that brought the referendum act into being is worth regarding? You think that the vote which brought something which you don't like isn't worth respecting?
Click to expand...

Parliament voted for a referendum for the British electorate but the constitution says that the result is not legally binding but merely advisory.

I hear David Davis this afternoon saying that it is the British public who are sovereign and he is WRONG - It is PARLIAMENT that is sovereign, not the people. We have a bi-cameral legislature to which we endow powers to scrutinise and debate and decide the laws of this land. That is the way it has been for centuries, that is what has served us well and that is the way it must be.

Certainly Parliament must take account of the outcome of the referendum but it must also take account of the campaign itself, whether it was misleading or misrepresentative, they must take account of the issues that have arisen following the referendum and then, in full possession of the facts, decide on what they think it the best way forward for Britain with regard to membership of the EU.
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Green Cross Code Man said:
On point 2. How many people would vote simply because they like freedom of movement?
Click to expand...


Interesting question and one often overlooked. Stopping Freedom of Movement (and its cousin European Citizenship) is presented as a prize by Leave campaigners but for many it's a price. Different members of my wider family are already seeing opportunities (work, business and studying) clouding over as a result of its possible ending.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
Lincoln Imp said:
Interesting question and one often overlooked. Stopping Freedom of Movement (and its cousin European Citizenship) is presented as a prize by Leave campaigners but for many it's a price. Different members of my wider family are already seeing opportunities (work, business and studying) clouding over as a result of its possible ending.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It is clear that one person may see a huge advantage in fom whilst another may only see the opposite. I hate how the referendum has drawn ever more divisive lines between our people.
 




You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here