Liam Rosenior in the Grauniad: NFL kneeling protest

Bakero · Sep 29, 2017

As an aside, did you know that until recently no NFL players were required to stand on the pitch while the national anthem was played? Not during regular season games at least. It all started after the Pentagon, as part of a recruitment drive during the Iraq war, paid sports teams hundreds of millions of dollars to boost patriotic displays.

I know this sounds like it belongs in the conspiracy theory thread but it's true, honestly

Thunder Bolt · Sep 29, 2017

DavidinSouthampton said:
Almost on principle I have ne'er put anyone on ignore on here. You're the closest anyone has ever got.

But much of what you write is so predictable it's laughable and quite entertaining, which probably isn't the intended reaction. Keep up the good work.

It is an intended reaction. Looney is a self confessed troll.

looney · Sep 29, 2017

DavidinSouthampton said:
Almost on principle I have ne'er put anyone on ignore on here. You're the closest anyone has ever got.

But much of what you write is so predictable it's laughable and quite entertaining, which probably isn't the intended reaction. Keep up the good work.

Translation.
Im about to cry and now rant in a reason free response. Go on put me on ignore, better to have fewer people with nothing to say clogging up threads with this contradictory claptrap. "Laughable and entertaining" and "I may put you on ignore"

looney · Sep 29, 2017

The Large One said:
One - it's an opinion piece, not a news story. So it's YOU are wrong for making out that this is.

'Taking A Knee' isn't anything to do with American patriotism. Trump has tried to make it that, and you've fallen for it. Again.

Wrong way to post over the wrong issues by the wrong person to do it. Crap post.

There isn't any difference between opinion pieces and news storys these days especially in the MSM.

Your second point is slight of hand, BLM protests in the road are not about blocking traffic or shooting coppers, strawman argument.

Critiquing a political post on a public forum is the right post, nailed on issues and outside of gulags there isn't a "right" person.
Crap response.

El Presidente · Sep 29, 2017

Gwylan said:
Brian Hall also had a degree.

What's happened to graduate footballers? Off the top of my head, I can think of Heighway, Hall. Coppell, Galvin, Neale and Gowling - all played in the 70s and had degrees (Alan Gowling had a masters as well) . You hardly hear of graduate footballers these days: is that because it's now so common, it's not worth mentioning or because there are so few? I genuinely don't know

Quite a few of them now study after their careers end. I've taught on a masters course to Dieter Hamann, Steve McClaren, Ashley Giles, Michael Johnson, Edgar Davids and former Albion loan goalkeeper Steve Harper.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 29, 2017

Maheta Molongo had a law degree.

DavidinSouthampton · Sep 29, 2017

S'hampton Seagull said:
If he doesn't make a career in football after he retires (he has a great chance) then his journalism skills are pretty good IMO.

The Guardian seems to rate him as well. This actually made the front page of their Sports section this week.

Partly because of its topicality, no doubt, but they wouldn't put it there unless they thought it was good.

W.C. · Sep 29, 2017

brightn'ove said:
The way that you mimic word for word the kind of crap that idiots like PJW come out with, it wouldn't surprise me if you were actually some kind of copy & paste bot. But then again, that could be said about literally anyone from the alt-right.

I was going to suggest to Looney that he get Anatoly from Vladivostok to knock him up a Looney bot for NSC. That way he could free up more of his time for scouting or whatever. We'd never know the difference. Never made an original contribution to NSC in his life.

pb21 · Sep 29, 2017

W.C. said:
I was going to suggest to Looney that he get Anatoly from Vladivostok to knock him up a Looney bot for NSC. That way he could free up more of his time for scouting or whatever. We'd never know the difference. Never made an original contribution to NSC in his life.

It does seem likely to me that Russia is increasing its ‘covert’ activity to increase division and societal unease in the west. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have thousands of Looneyesque bots ready to roll out, and similar bots working 24/7 that the Looneyesque one would label as a ‘libtard cuck’. I bet there are forums and social media platforms entirely composed of Russian bots from either side going hammer and tongs at each other. Not to mention what kinds of ‘legitimate’ western political interests Russia directly/indirectly finances.

I guess this would be better placed in the conspiracy thread though!

W.C. · Sep 29, 2017

pb21 said:
It does seem likely to me that Russia is increasing its ‘covert’ activity to increase division and societal unease in the west. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have thousands of Looneyesque bots ready to roll out, and similar bots working 24/7 that the Looneyesque one would label as a ‘libtard cuck’. I bet there are forums and social media platforms entirely composed of Russian bots from either side going hammer and tongs at each other. Not to mention what kinds of ‘legitimate’ western political interests Russia directly/indirectly finances.

I guess this would be better placed in the conspiracy thread though!

It's certainly off topic! Unfortunately I think it's more rooted in fact than conspiracy though.

Hamilton · Sep 29, 2017

looney said:
There isn't any difference between opinion pieces and news storys these days especially in the MSM.

Your second point is slight of hand, BLM protests in the road are not about blocking traffic or shooting coppers, strawman argument.

Critiquing a political post on a public forum is the right post, nailed on issues and outside of gulags there isn't a "right" person.
Crap response.

You don't half talk some rubbish.

In your first post, you talk about police brutality and the facts. Fair enough, so here are a few facts.

Since the year 2000, law enforcement shootings in the USA have resulted in 22,000 deaths. That is a rate of 3.5 a day.

In September 2017, law enforcement shootings resulted in the deaths of 80 people.

Data is here: http://www.fatalencounters.org

The overwhelming number of people shot dead were also armed. However, unarmed black people are more than twice as likely to be shot than white people.

Data is here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1745-9133.12269/full

There is a very real issue when it comes to deaths in interaction between citizens and law enforcement officers, and ethnicity. That much is fact.

What are the causes of that? That is a far deeper debate, and it is not one that Liam gets into with his opinion piece - he merely states that it is right, and constitutional one might point out, for sportsmen and women - no matter what their ethnicity - to raise the issue through protest.

Lastly, opinion pieces are not news items. If you expand that crooked thinking, then you are in danger of consigning all literature to the wastepaper basket of news. They influence thinking and reasoned debate - they are not news.

Nor is news about reason. News should really be reduced to facts. Facts relate only to what has happened. Why it has happened, that's reason, and that is why we welcome debate. Liam is adding to that debate.

brightn'ove · Sep 29, 2017

pb21 said:
It does seem likely to me that Russia is increasing its ‘covert’ activity to increase division and societal unease in the west. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have thousands of Looneyesque bots ready to roll out, and similar bots working 24/7 that the Looneyesque one would label as a ‘libtard cuck’. I bet there are forums and social media platforms entirely composed of Russian bots from either side going hammer and tongs at each other. Not to mention what kinds of ‘legitimate’ western political interests Russia directly/indirectly finances.

I guess this would be better placed in the conspiracy thread though!

This is definitely happening, there is a whole super structure of online bots that are designed to get misinformation & propaganda into the mainstream discourse.

read this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-step-by-step-guide-for-how-russian-bots-trick-far-trolls

JC Footy Genius · Sep 29, 2017

pb21 said:
It does seem likely to me that Russia is increasing its ‘covert’ activity to increase division and societal unease in the west. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have thousands of Looneyesque bots ready to roll out, and similar bots working 24/7 that the Looneyesque one would label as a ‘libtard cuck’. I bet there are forums and social media platforms entirely composed of Russian bots from either side going hammer and tongs at each other. Not to mention what kinds of ‘legitimate’ western political interests Russia directly/indirectly finances.

I guess this would be better placed in the conspiracy thread though!

Things have certainly moved on from the good old days when the KGB tried to recruit journos. As the KGB’s resident chief in London during the 80's said "The KGB loved The Guardian. It was deemed highly susceptible to penetration." Trump in the White House and a possible Corbyn government looming .. the FSB/SVR must be partying 24/7.

Greg Bobkin · Sep 29, 2017

I don't understand why they play the national anthem before games anyway? The only time we do here is if it is a NATIONAL sporting occasion.

I did ask the question on the Facebook thread of an American friend of mine, but was accused – by one of HIS friends – of being a 'snooty Brit' and told to 'keep out of our politics and we'll keep out of yours'. Which was nice...

Hotchilidog · Sep 29, 2017

Greg Bobkin said:
I don't understand why they play the national anthem before games anyway? The only time we do here is if it is a NATIONAL sporting occasion.

I did ask the question on the Facebook thread of an American friend of mine, but was accused – by one of HIS friends – of being a 'snooty Brit' and told to 'keep out of our politics and we'll keep out of yours'. Which was nice...

I love American sport, but I too find the anthem and constant references to the military both baffling and unnerving.

BBassic · Sep 29, 2017

Plooks said:
One of them has 3 A-levels...hardly impressive.

More than I've got :thumbsup:

Two Professors · Sep 29, 2017

Hope Liam doesn't encourage our players to kneel.They'd probably end up in the treatment room!

looney · Sep 29, 2017

Hamilton said:
You don't half talk some rubbish.

However, unarmed black people are more than twice as likely to be shot than white people.

Data is here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1745-9133.12269/full

There is a very real issue when it comes to deaths in interaction between citizens and law enforcement officers, and ethnicity. That much is fact.

No it isn't "fact" its fake news.

firstly you would have to show a significant difference between social groups, comparing working class black a whites (You could also compare middle class groups with each other), there are good reasons for separating out wealth effects but only one for ignoring it,.

You could also then try to isolate how much of the Black deaths are not explained by above then test them with proxy measures, the Percentage of deaths compare to reported crimes of each group, or convictions from each group.

Hamilton said:
You don't half talk some rubbish.

Lastly, opinion pieces are not news items. If you expand that crooked thinking, then you are in danger of consigning all literature to the wastepaper basket of news. They influence thinking and reasoned debate - they are not news.

News is information like opinion peices, they are both platformed on the grauniad as they come from a cerrtain political perspective. You are trying to split hairs here and not very well.

Hamilton said:
You don't half talk some rubbish.

Nor is news about reason. News should really be reduced to facts. Facts relate only to what has happened. Why it has happened, that's reason, and that is why we welcome debate. Liam is adding to that debate.

Are the old leftist shibbolith of FACTS!!!!!!

The BBC used to refer to think tanks as either rightwing or independent, When they were Leftwing independents and Rightwing Independents. now in this example the BBC has got its facts right.

Over 90% of fake news does not involve factual errors, deliberate or otherwise, its lying by omission.

The real issues for Black America are Education, Employment and the jailing of so many Black males(They are related).

The article is a propaganda comfort blanket for those who would happily believe its the fault of a racist quasi militaristic organisation(The Police) rather than addressing political failures of left and right in the past and entrenched vested interests like teaching unions who oppose voucher schemes(Something Trump is implementing).

Hamilton · Sep 29, 2017

looney said:
The article is a propaganda comfort blanket for those who would happily believe its the fault of a racist quasi militaristic organisation(The Police) rather than addressing political failures of left and right in the past and entrenched vested interests like teaching unions who oppose voucher schemes(Something Trump is implementing).

Nobody has put fault at anyone's door. You have done that.

However, the data - and whether you choose to read it or not, that's up to you, but don't ignore the facts - shows that people are shot on a regular occurrence and that if unarmed, then skin colour can affect your chances of being shot. Those facts require scrutiny.

I'm delighted that you are prepared to start scrutinising data. That's what we all need to do.

So, for example, 12% of police officers in the USA are black, which broadly reflects the number of black citizens in the USA. In terms of reflecting diversity, the police force does that. They are facts. So, why do black citizens get treated differently? The police are not the sole makers of society, they just administer law. And so the plot thickens.

Lastly, you really must stop attaching the word 'fake' to the word 'news' like some Trump hired mobster. There really is no need.

News is either news, or its a lie. So, call it for what it is. If you believe a research paper that has examined all the shootings in a given time period and analysed the ethnicity of those shot is a lie, then call it a lie, not fake news. Of course, you will then need to tell us why the numbers that have been counted are lies, or you begin to sound like a liar yourself.

What Trump is trying to do is muddy the water between what is the truth and what is not the truth. Let's not let him do that.

marlowe · Sep 29, 2017

The kneeling protest evokes memories of the black power/ human rights salutes at the 1968 Olympics. I've just found out that the white guy on the podium in the 1968 Olympics photo, Peter Norman, the Australuan sprinter, was also making his own gesture of solidarity, but in a much less overt and obvious manner, by wearing a badge on the podium which read "Olympic Project for Human Rights". This went largely unnoticed by the rest of the world but when he returned home to Australia he faced widespread condemnation which finished his career. Ironically it could be argued that the anonymous white guy suffered more in the long run for his more inconspicuous stand against racial injustice than the two black protestors, Tommie Smith and John Carlos who in later years were lauded for their actions.

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Liam Rosenior in the Grauniad: NFL kneeling protest

Languidly clinical

Silly old bat

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The ONLY Gay in Brighton

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cringe

Bringer of TRUTH

Silver Seagull

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I changed this.

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