JC speaks

Raleigh Chopper · Sep 27, 2017

Labour spend money...where the hell is that money coming from?
Tories spend money...where the hell did that money come from?
We should be given facts about this country's finances and exactly how both sides are going to deal with it.
On the one hand we are skint and in dire debt which is getting worse yet billions are found when needed but on the other hand we are capable of putting all the problems right over 2 terms of Labour, yet apparently Labour will skint the country, when we are already skint.
We are drip fed information on a need to know basis, both sides scared to tell the truth, yet it's me and you that put the X on the paper.

giveusfalmerplease · Sep 27, 2017

i am over 50 and never voted for anyone so can freely express my opinion without siding with any one party so....I think JC is full of good intents but doesnt really understand economics well and his policies would be short-term gain for long term pain. Renationalize the utilities ? Great idea in theory - but where will the BILLIONS come from to pay off the multi-nationals which own them? It would lead to a massive run on the pound and pretty much the only way we could pay for it is (once the £ reaches £1=$1, devalue the pound like the 3rd world countries do to restore some balance in the exchange rates..i could go on but i wont - i'm not an economist and dont claim to be

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

And none of this would be happening if you chaps voted for me - call me Dave and remain.

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I had. We haven't got bases there though like The Dutch and The French, 'Overseas Territories' are reactive as has been proven, compared to their 'departments' system etc. Saint Martin v Falkland Islands - hmmmmmm. They sent their King and President, we sent Johnson........................ We spend £x on The Falkland Islands when we can't seem to react to the damage of the magic money tree devastation of Irma in The Caribbean.

The Falklands is self-sufficient other than the cost of defending it against a very credible and immediate hostile force which is no fault of the Islanders. You simply can't compare the Falklands with any other overseas territory.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I had. We haven't got bases there though like The Dutch and The French, 'Overseas Territories' are reactive as has been proven, compared to their 'departments' system etc. Saint Martin v Falkland Islands - hmmmmmm. They sent their King and President, we sent Johnson........................ We spend £x on The Falkland Islands when we can't seem to react to the damage of the magic money tree devastation of Irma in The Caribbean.

the UK Government has also provided £2.5 million to the Pan American Health Organisation; part of its £32 million total pledge to aid the disaster.

That's without the cost of the RFA,HMS Ocean, which was loaded in Gibraltar with 5,000 hygiene kits, 10,000 buckets and 500,000 water purification tablets, is also currently on its way having left Gibraltar last night, 1000 troops along with food shelter, and tools to restore power.

How much more do you want them to spend? How much do we spend on the Falklands?

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
The Falklands is self-sufficient other than the cost of defending it against a very credible and immediate hostile force which is no fault of the Islanders. You simply can't compare the Falklands with any other overseas territory.

How much do we spend defending Anguilla by comparison then?

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
We'll see if he does - personally I doubt it. Ultimately they'd be part of Tierra del Fuego now if they hadn't invaded in 1982 - Thatcher sold out on far more people - Rhodesia, The Anglo-Irish Agreement etc. .

Eh? What utter nonsense and a poor grasp of history you have. Rhodesia became independent in the 60s long before Thatcher was even a senior politician. It became Zimbabwe, only 3 months into Thatcher's reign as PM. As for the Anglo-Irish agreement, it's widely regarded as one of the key stepping-stones towards the current peace that we have in N.Ireland. History has also shown that the Anglo-Irish Agreement has not resulted in N.Ireland becoming a part of the Rep of Ireland.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
the UK Government has also provided £2.5 million to the Pan American Health Organisation; part of its £32 million total pledge to aid the disaster.

That's without the cost of the RFA,HMS Ocean, which was loaded in Gibraltar with 5,000 hygiene kits, 10,000 buckets and 500,000 water purification tablets, is also currently on its way having left Gibraltar last night, 1000 troops along with food shelter, and tools to restore power.

How much more do you want them to spend? How much do we spend on the Falklands?

I don't know. Rhodesian's and Falkland Islanders, what do you think? When I lived in Africa I was surprised at the animosity toward Thatcher over Zimbabwe - hatred. The Rhodies said Blair was more forthright.

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
How much do we spend defending Anguilla by comparison then?

Thankyou. Your ignorance has very clearly highlighted my point. We spend virtually nothing because Anguilla does not face a very hostile foreign government intent on taking it by force. This is why I said that you cannot compare spend on the Falklands with other overseas territories.

chucky1973 · Sep 27, 2017

Moshe Gariani said:
Labour is ready.

Ready to tackle inequality.
Ready to rebuild our NHS.
Ready to give security and dignity to all older people.
Ready to invest in our economy.
Ready to put peace and justice at the heart of foreign policy.
Ready to build a new and progressive relationship with Europe.

They messed it up in the first place. All are a shambles.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
Eh? What utter nonsense and a poor grasp of history you have. Rhodesia became independent in the 60s long before Thatcher was even a senior politician. It became Zimbabwe, only 3 months into Thatcher's reign as PM. As for the Anglo-Irish agreement, it's widely regarded as one of the key stepping-stones towards the current peace that we have in N.Ireland.

I lived in Botswana for 2 years. Rhodies hated Thatcher down there, she danced with the devil - I have the residency. What do you know more than I don't out of interest though in Africa?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 27, 2017

Quite a positive ambience towards labour in The Standard. Whether it makes sense or not, it looks like a labour landslide is inevitable. Events appear to have caught up with the conservative party. So it goes.

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I lived in Botswana for 2 years. Rhodies hated Thatcher down there, she danced with the devil - I have the residency. What do you know more than I don't out of interest though in Africa?

I find it curious that you insist on referring to Rhodesia and I think that rather says something about your views on the region and perhaps your opinion on minority rule. I don't claim to have specialist knowledge although I lived in S Africa in the 90s and most whites from that country that I met referred to themselves as Zimbabweans or just 'Zims'. We just called them "when we's".

But I'm curious, how was Thatcher to blame for either independence or majority rule? Are they not just using Thatcher as a totem for the UK in general?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 27, 2017

giveusfalmerplease said:
i am over 50 and never voted for anyone so can freely express my opinion without siding with any one party so....I think JC is full of good intents but doesnt really understand economics well and his policies would be short-term gain for long term pain. Renationalize the utilities ? Great idea in theory - but where will the BILLIONS come from to pay off the multi-nationals which own them? It would lead to a massive run on the pound and pretty much the only way we could pay for it is (once the £ reaches £1=$1, devalue the pound like the 3rd world countries do to restore some balance in the exchange rates..i could go on but i wont - i'm not an economist and dont claim to be

So what makes you think you have any stake in the political process? FFS. I am appalled. Seriously.

JC Footy Genius · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
And none of this would be happening if you chaps voted for me - call me Dave and remain.

None of this would be happening if the EU had given him a substantive deal pre-referendum especially on immigration controls. None of this would be happening if a few Labour MP's hadn't put his name up for leadership as a token leftie/joke. None of this would be happening if the Tories hadn't run such a poor campaign. None of this would be happening if more of the electorate hadn't taken leave of their senses believing this same old, same old Socialist nonsense. Only the voters who elect him to government (if that happens) will be responsible for what happens next though .. as much as they might like to shift the blame.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
I find it curious that you insist on referring to Rhodesia and I think that rather says something about your views on the region and perhaps your opinion on minority rule. I don't claim to have specialist knowledge although I lived in S Africa in the 90s and most whites from that country that I met referred to themselves as Zimbabweans or just 'Zims'. We just called them "when we's".

But I'm curious, how was Thatcher to blame for either independence or majority rule? Are they not just using Thatcher as a totem for the UK in general?

All and both - Shona, Ndebele and Rhodie - Thatcher agreed to anything. Blair stood up to Mugabe, she danced the dance behind him in Harare in '87. Having lived in Southern Africa, Thatcher was the great traitor out of nowhere. People hated Blair, but Margaret Thatcher sold everyone out.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
None of this would be happening if the EU had given him a substantive deal pre-referendum especially on immigration controls. None of this would be happening if a few Labour MP's hadn't put his name up for leadership as a token leftie/joke. None of this would be happening if the Tories hadn't run such a poor campaign. None of this would be happening if more of the electorate hadn't taken leave of their senses believing this same old, same old Socialist nonsense. Only the voters who elect him to government (if that happens) will be responsible for what happens next though .. as much as they might like to shift the blame.

I know. Whats your point?

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
All and both - Shona, Ndebele and Rhodie - Thatcher agreed to anything. Blair stood up to Mugabe, she danced the dance behind Thatcher in Harare in '87. Having lived in Southern Africa, Thatcher was the great traitor out of nowhere. People hated Blair, but Margaret Thatcher sold everyone out.

Once again...how? Thatcher hated Mugabe and the feeling was mutual. Throughout her government, Thatcher was attacked constantly for being soft on South Africa.

And when you say "people" do you mean the white minorities?

JC Footy Genius · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I know. Whats your point?

I was just expanding on yours

beorhthelm · Sep 27, 2017

seagulls4ever said:
Just seen that, thanks. He was wrong. Just as Boris Johnson is every week.

It's easy to see why opponents of JC/Labour misrepresented what he actually said. They will obviously be keen to pounce on a mistake by a shadow minister claiming that JC said something which he didn't actually say, rather than quoting from the original source where JC never said what he was reported to have said.

Even Andrew Marr got this wrong, by claiming Labour announced a policy just before the GE to wipe pre-existing student debt in a post-election interview with McDonnell.

i see, everyone has it wrong, including McDonnell, Shadow Housing minister and various other Labour MPs who either advanced the idea or discounted the idea after the election, political commentators and writers from Andrew Marr to Owen Jones. true it wasnt in the manifesto, that was one of the critisism at the time, but if the leaders of the party advance a policy, then its policy should they find themselve in government.

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