[Football] Banter - just an excuse for otherwise socially unacceptable behaviour

Wrong-Direction said:

It's quite worrying actually that you're unwilling to agree that there's a few bad eggs in your ranks, its like me saying there's no such thing as rouge traders.

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GT49er said:

Well, I've never seen a rouge trainer!

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McTavish said:

The problem with banter is that it is all very well when everyone is comfortable with it but, as we have seen on here and elsewhere, as soon as any one objects then they are told that they have no sense of humour or they should "man up and stop being a snowflake." A lot of banter is used, whether purposefully or not, to establish social hierarchies, a bit like baboons mooning each other. It is the absolute purpose of some, maybe most, banter to (however slightly) belittle others in a group and enhance the social credentials of the banterer.

Like baboon bum brandishing it is usually fairly harmless but when there is already an in-built power imbalance then the banter can become toxic as the person being belittled has no real recourse to banter back and if they don't "laugh along" then they can be seen as stuck-up or overly precious. Often (as might be the case with Mark Sampson) the banterer doesn't even realise what they are doing.

Many years ago I was a restaurant manager - I was very young, inexperienced and, as it turns out, stupid. I had employed a fantastic waitress, she was hard-working, accurate and the customers loved her. She was also quiet and reserved. I assumed that she realised that I thought she was brilliant and so felt quite happy having a bit of "banter" with her - if she dropped a teaspoon, for example, I would make a big deal of it in an amusingly over-the-top way because she so rarely made any mistakes at all.

One day the waitress came to me and resigned - I was shocked and asked her why. She said that part of the reason was that I was always picking on her and constantly criticising her. I had thought that I was a hilarious boss driving the banter bus and keeping everyone motivated with my up beat ironic quips whereas I was in fact making one of my best employees so miserable that she left. I still feel embarrassed and ashamed that I had so fundamently mis-judged the situation and am therefore vary wary when people excuse things by saying "it was just banter" or "I was only having a laugh".

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McTavish said:

The problem with banter is that it is all very well when everyone is comfortable with it but, as we have seen on here and elsewhere, as soon as any one objects then they are told that they have no sense of humour or they should "man up and stop being a snowflake." A lot of banter is used, whether purposefully or not, to establish social hierarchies, a bit like baboons mooning each other. It is the absolute purpose of some, maybe most, banter to (however slightly) belittle others in a group and enhance the social credentials of the banterer.

Like baboon bum brandishing it is usually fairly harmless but when there is already an in-built power imbalance then the banter can become toxic as the person being belittled has no real recourse to banter back and if they don't "laugh along" then they can be seen as stuck-up or overly precious. Often (as might be the case with Mark Sampson) the banterer doesn't even realise what they are doing.

Many years ago I was a restaurant manager - I was very young, inexperienced and, as it turns out, stupid. I had employed a fantastic waitress, she was hard-working, accurate and the customers loved her. She was also quiet and reserved. I assumed that she realised that I thought she was brilliant and so felt quite happy having a bit of "banter" with her - if she dropped a teaspoon, for example, I would make a big deal of it in an amusingly over-the-top way because she so rarely made any mistakes at all.

One day the waitress came to me and resigned - I was shocked and asked her why. She said that part of the reason was that I was always picking on her and constantly criticising her. I had thought that I was a hilarious boss driving the banter bus and keeping everyone motivated with my up beat ironic quips whereas I was in fact making one of my best employees so miserable that she left. I still feel embarrassed and ashamed that I had so fundamently mis-judged the situation and am therefore vary wary when people excuse things by saying "it was just banter" or "I was only having a laugh".

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LlcoolJ said:

View attachment 90323

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AmexRuislip said:

The military style banter, if you could call it that, is a totally different world to the Mickey taking I experience these days.
An example would be as soft as turning a cap badge upside down on the hat/beret, shampoo in boots, bed packs being glued together, to the extremes of throwing cold water over someone if their personal hygiene wasn't up to scratch.

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Questions said:

My mate joined the Paras when he was 18 and after his training came back a right arrogant sh.t.
He bought a mate back with him who was even cockier. We ended up falling out and having an almighty scrap.
I was younger but 6ft 4in by then so he came 2nd. He was embarrassed more than hurt.

That is not typical of other soldiers or military men I have met though. Nearly all of them have been good stand up guys.
If fact I can’t think of any ex military boys I dislike. I even have a soft spot for Alfred on here.
Maybe it’s the younger ones W-D.

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The Gem said:

Your naivety is laughable.

FYI. WW2 is not the only war that the UK has been involved in, we are still fighting today.

Your limp attempts at humour are a shameful.

It may not be a world war when you need help, it maybe when you are on a bus, tube or just walking in the street like Lee Rigby was.

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The Gem said:

As an ex-service man or soldier as you put it, if you ever want to come and say this to my face let me know.

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Goldstone1976 said:

Interesting. That's consistent with my experience of employing ex-Military folk, which can be summarised as:

Ex-Marine - all outstanding
Ex-Para - all interviewed well, but failed to fit in after employment
Ex-Household Division - all failed at interview
All other units - no pattern

HR told me that there was sufficient data to draw conclusions about likely suitability and hence to take the unit into account when drawing up interview lists. I never approved that policy on principle, but it was interesting.

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swindonseagull said:

2016 was the first year no UK military were killed in action since 1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_casualties_of_war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rst-year-since-1968-no-one-killed-operations/

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alfredmizen said:

You need to calm down mate , dont take the bait.

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The Gem said:

I know, you are right.

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alfredmizen said:

What.are/were you in anyway mate ?

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The Gem said:

Royal Signals, Was September 79C intake in Harrogate. 2 months after my 16th Birthday.

Lost some good men along the way.

Do/did you serve?

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alfredmizen said:

Yes mate., joined up in nov 82 aged 17 , grenadier guards.

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alfredmizen said:

Yes mate., joined up in nov 82 aged 17 , grenadier guards.

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spring hall convert said:

But that's kind of the point isn't it? Your equivalency with what your mate said taken in isolation isn't helpful. This is about context, personality, relationship and precedent as much as some hard and fast rule that proves definitely what was said was or wasn't racist.

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