Shootings and explosion in Paris!

alfredmizen · Nov 22, 2015

Acker79 said:
I've entered Europe by passing through Chicago (on a return trip from Canada). Doesn't stop me being born and bred in England.

We know of British citizen going to Syria. If they want to come back, they might pass through Leros, too. The terrorists may have passed through Leros, but based on what we know at the moment, it's entirely possible it was a return journey.

Were you posing as a refugee to avoid the authorities detecting your real identity ?

JC Footy Genius · Nov 22, 2015

BigGully said:
Even if we for sake of argument take the inevitable terrorist threat out of the equation, it isnt compatible to our culture to suck in 100 000's of peoples with an overriding religious dynamic, with a default position of bigotry, anti equality, a non tolerance to homosexuality and a myriad of other issues that we in the west have fought to evolve into our civilisation for hundreds of years including tolerance, freedom, equality and justice, something that no religion can ever take credit for.

This point is often glossed over and conveniently ignored. I have yet to hear a compelling reasoned argument why this influx is in anyway a good thing. The usual suspects either screech Islamaphobia whatever that means or run away from the debate.

symyjym · Nov 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
I know you have an obsession about Assad, and we hear this all the time. In fact in an earlier post, you did admit that his dad had made some "mistakes", which I suspect was a severe under-statement! And now, if this is the best you can do i.e saying that others are as bad, or even worse, then that does not speak too highly of your hero, does it? If he was as good for Syria as you claim, that there would not have been a revolt.

Oh here we go, anyone with a different opinion to yours has an obsession

We all know that you forgive Bush and Blair for their little “mistakes”. Talk about heroes, if Assad is mine they are yours. You would rather provide a childlike attempt to be patronising than have adult discussion and possibly learn something.

As far as the revolt goes you haven’t got a clue what happened. I have already explained what happened but you are blind to finding out more. Of course like the CIA and Britain didn’t have anything to do with the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

They do say ignorance is bliss, but carry on with your support for Saudi Arabia’s position on Syria. Meanwhile I will be on the side of the Kurds, Yazidi's, Christian's, Shia's and Alawaites.

symyjym · Nov 22, 2015

beorhthelm said:
did i even hint at that? no. i just corrected the misguided idea Assad is any better.

Better than who?

carlzeiss · Nov 22, 2015

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-used-fugitive-terrorist-Salah-Abdeslam.html

Deleted member 22389 · Nov 22, 2015

carlzeiss said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-used-fugitive-terrorist-Salah-Abdeslam.html

Born in Pakistan. Bring them back and deport every single one.

dingodan · Nov 22, 2015

Soulman said:
With respect, why do/did you not just wake up. A few on here did, we were slated but still tried to put our views across. The warnings signs were there, but you chose to side with those that had the knee jerk sympathy news that you were fed. Meanwhile atrocities and indoctrination are being implemented upon all the other peaceful races and religions tghat rub along nicely, here and in the civilised world.

Did I post something which said that there wasn't this risk? I don't remember taking any sides on the issue.

I did recognize the risk at the time, but I will confess that I felt uncomfortable making the point at the time for the very reasons I mentioned. I wasn't someone who didn't want to hear it, and I wouldn't have called you names for saying it, but I could feel the pressure of outrage and emotions and it made me silent on the subject. When I bring up the issue of political correctness and what it can do to discussion, I'm including myself in that too.

BigGully · Nov 22, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
This point is often glossed over and conveniently ignored. I have yet to hear a compelling reasoned argument why this influx is in anyway a good thing. The usual suspects either screech Islamaphobia whatever that means or run away from the debate.

The religious dynamic is the problem, even if it doesnt then create terrorism, which at this moment is an unbelievable leap of faith, it will make any new founded communities toxic, but perhaps more worryingly a likelihood that our own passive culture will somehow feel obliged not to offend our newly arrived citizens and their Islamic beliefs, I cannot remember seeing any of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons shown, thats right we withdrew our freedom of expressions for a CAR BLOODY TOON in 2015 !!!

It is always a good idea to offend, challenge and ridicule some bigoted ancient doctrines, there is no place for an aggressive, prioritised and self appointed religious voice in 21st century Britain, to invite those that will demand its exposure would be a disaster.

Barham's tash · Nov 22, 2015

BigGully said:
The religious dynamic is the problem, even if it doesnt then create terrorism, which at this moment is an unbelievable leap of faith, it will make any new founded communities toxic, but perhaps more worryingly a likelihood that our own passive culture will somehow feel obliged not to offend our newly arrived citizens and their Islamic beliefs, I cannot remember seeing any of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons shown, thats right we withdrew our freedom of expressions for a CAR BLOODY TOON in 2015 !!!

It is always a good idea to offend, challenge and ridicule some bigoted ancient doctrines, there is no place for an aggressive, prioritised and self appointed religious voice in 21st century Britain, to invite those that will demand its exposure would be a disaster.

A good cogent argument in a time where many a simply prepared to sling mud unnecessarily...

It's a tough choice for me as I really don't harbour as many concerns about allowing immigrants into our country because in the past this has always resulted in a very positive multi cultural society that has over time developed a considerable amount of tolerance towards an influx of permanent visitors that contribute very positively to what our country has become.... but (and there's always a but) this feels different and we have to be mindful of the risk that in allowing many/the masses you risk receiving one or two bad apples. The issue here is that for whatever reason the bad apples for Islam appear to have wide reaching influence and ability to culture and develop extremist behavioural attitudes in the less extremist masses of their religion.

Hastings gull · Nov 22, 2015

symyjym said:
Oh here we go, anyone with a different opinion to yours has an obsession

We all know that you forgive Bush and Blair for their little “mistakes”. Talk about heroes, if Assad is mine they are yours. You would rather provide a childlike attempt to be patronising than have adult discussion and possibly learn something.

As far as the revolt goes you haven’t got a clue what happened. I have already explained what happened but you are blind to finding out more. Of course like the CIA and Britain didn’t have anything to do with the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

They do say ignorance is bliss, but carry on with your support for Saudi Arabia’s position on Syria. Meanwhile I will be on the side of the Kurds, Yazidi's, Christian's, Shia's and Alawaites.

Don't be so pathetic. It is a forum and everyone can post as they wish, including you. It is just that you come up with the same old stuff all the time. Whilst I fully accept that any minority view deserves listening to, you are in a minority of one in your repeated defence of Assad. You are being equally silly with your sentence about Blair and Bush -I. like virtually everyone here recognise that grave errors were made. Now we have the attempt to gain some sort of upmanship with the casual mention of the Iranian coup - the last time you threw in the King David Hotel.

dingodan · Nov 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
Don't be so pathetic. It is a forum and everyone can post as they wish, including you. It is just that you come up with the same old stuff all the time. Whilst I fully accept that any minority view deserves listening to, you are in a minority of one in your repeated defence of Assad. You are being equally silly with your sentence about Blair and Bush -I. like virtually everyone here recognise that grave errors were made. Now we have the attempt to gain some sort of upmanship with the casual mention of the Iranian coup - the last time you threw in the King David Hotel.

Sorry to butt in, but "coming up with the same old stuff". I can only read that to mean having a consistent opinion, albeit one you disagree with. I mean do you say something different everytime you speak?

& "Whilst I fully accept that any minority view deserves listening to, you are in a minority of one". This is contradictory.

I do agree with you about the use of banned munitions though.

Now all we need to do is convince the U.S.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/23...f-cluster-bombs-to-saudis-despite-global-ban/

Hastings gull · Nov 22, 2015

dingodan said:
Sorry to butt in, but "coming up with the same old stuff". I can only read that to mean having a consistent opinion, albeit one you disagree with. I mean do you say something different everytime you speak?

& "Whilst I fully accept that any minority view deserves listening to, you are in a minority of one". This is contradictory.

I do agree with you about the use of banned munitions though.

Now all we need to do is convince the U.S.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/23...f-cluster-bombs-to-saudis-despite-global-ban/

Actually, I am not sure if I agree with him or not on much that he writes about the Arab world, as he is clearly well-read, and I would think knows more than I do. It is just that he trots out the same line about Assad regardless. I am sorry but I can't actually see what is contradictory - he can be heard, just like anyone else, just that no one else thinks that Assad is the kind reformer. If you are inferring that as a lone voice, he should not be heard, then you are wrong.

symyjym · Nov 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
Don't be so pathetic. It is a forum and everyone can post as they wish, including you. It is just that you come up with the same old stuff all the time. Whilst I fully accept that any minority view deserves listening to, you are in a minority of one in your repeated defence of Assad. You are being equally silly with your sentence about Blair and Bush -I. like virtually everyone here recognise that grave errors were made. Now we have the attempt to gain some sort of upmanship with the casual mention of the Iranian coup - the last time you threw in the King David Hotel.

Shame you are not open to learning anything.

Hastings gull said:
Actually, I am not sure if I agree with him or not on much that he writes about the Arab world, as he is clearly well-read, and I would think knows more than I do. It is just that he trots out the same line about Assad regardless. I am sorry but I can't actually see what is contradictory - he can be heard, just like anyone else, just that no one else thinks that Assad is the kind reformer. If you are inferring that as a lone voice, he should not be heard, then you are wrong.

Unless you think you are qualified to speak for everyone you should let others can speak for themselves.

I gave [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION] a brief summary to what I understand to be true, so I suggest you butt out of a civilised conversation that I am not having with you. I can express what I like to who I like. All this spitting the dummy when you don't like what to others I say is bonkers.

Hastings gull · Nov 22, 2015

symyjym said:
Unless you think you are qualified to speak for everyone you should let others can speak for themselves.

I gave [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION] a brief summary to what I understand to be true, so I suggest you butt out of a civilised conversation that I am not having with you. I can express what I like to who I like. All this spitting the dummy when you don't like what to others I say is bonkers.

You would rather provide a childlike attempt to be patronising than have adult discussion

I leave it up to you as to how you square your current post with the inconsistency of what you wrote previously -at least it wasn't quite the insulting rant of last week. I think you misunderstand the point of a forum - it is a public forum, and, as such, there is no such thing as a private chat -it is open to anyone. I gather that the PM is a perfectly good system for having a private word. Folk come and give other opinions to what I write and I manage not to tell them to "butt out", yet you lecture me about spitting the dummy . .

symyjym · Nov 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
[/B]

You would rather provide a childlike attempt to be patronising than have adult discussion

I leave it up to you as to how you square your current post with the inconsistency of what you wrote previously -at least it wasn't quite the insulting rant of last week. I think you misunderstand the point of a forum - it is a public forum, and, as such, there is no such thing as a private chat -it is open to anyone. I gather that the PM is a perfectly good system for having a private word. Folk come and give other opinions to what I write and I manage not to tell them to "butt out", yet you lecture me about spitting the dummy . .

Ok mate, thanks for your words of wisdom on the subject. At least I can go away knowing that I learnt something

pastafarian · Nov 23, 2015

Its all gone very quiet from the usual freedom of movement/open borders brigade,not just on NSC but in general.

The silence is deafening.

BadFish · Nov 23, 2015

pastafarian said:
Its all gone very quiet from the usual freedom of movement/open borders brigade,not just on NSC but in general.

The silence is deafening.

99.9% of those that are seeking asylum or moving from one place to another were not involved in this terrorist attack. Some of the terrorists may have (I haven't seen anything concrete yet) hidden among the genuine asylum seekers/migrants.

As I understand it IS are very keen for us to turn on refugees and to alienate Muslims to draw them to their cause.

For these reasons my stance has not changed on asylum seekers, migration or refugees.

Maybe there is silence on this issue because it has nothing to do with the thread.

W.C. · Nov 23, 2015

pastafarian said:
Its all gone very quiet from the usual freedom of movement/open borders brigade,not just on NSC but in general.

The silence is deafening.

oooh look a new brigade! Where can we sign up??

cunning fergus · Nov 23, 2015

pastafarian said:
Its all gone very quiet from the usual freedom of movement/open borders brigade,not just on NSC but in general.

The silence is deafening.

I can think of 130 reasons why they are quiet........

Vegas Seagull · Nov 23, 2015

Prince Charles blames a drought for it all.
cc award winning snow thread

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