JC speaks

Thunder Bolt · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
Eh? What utter nonsense and a poor grasp of history you have. Rhodesia became independent in the 60s long before Thatcher was even a senior politician. It became Zimbabwe, only 3 months into Thatcher's reign as PM. As for the Anglo-Irish agreement, it's widely regarded as one of the key stepping-stones towards the current peace that we have in N.Ireland. History has also shown that the Anglo-Irish Agreement has not resulted in N.Ireland becoming a part of the Rep of Ireland.

Thank you. I honestly didn't think he was that ignorant and wondered how on earth Rhodesia/Zimbabwe came into it. I thought I must have read his posts wrongly.

Wrong-Direction · Sep 27, 2017

It's scary really how many people have completely forgot about all the money the Tories have squandered

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ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
Once again...how? Thatcher hated Mugabe and the feeling was mutual. Throughout her government, Thatcher was attacked constantly for being soft on South Africa.

And when you say "people" do you mean the white minorities?

I've never met a Rhodesian who does not think they were sold out and betrayed by Thatcher. Does that answer it?

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Thank you. I honestly didn't think he was that ignorant and wondered how on earth Rhodesia/Zimbabwe came into it. I thought I must have read his posts wrongly.

I'm baffled too and I do find it odd to hear anyone nowadays refer to the people of that country as Rhodesians. I've only ever heard that said elsewhere by members of the Monday Club (and that was in the late 80s).

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Thank you. I honestly didn't think he was that ignorant and wondered how on earth Rhodesia/Zimbabwe came into it. I thought I must have read his posts wrongly.

I've never met a Rhodesian who does not think they were sold out and betrayed by Thatcher. Does that answer it? Have you in living in Southern Africa also then?

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
I'm baffled too and I do find it odd to hear anyone nowadays refer to the people of that country as Rhodesians. I've only ever heard that said elsewhere by members of the Monday Club (and that was in the late 80s).

Have you been to southern Africa and perhaps lived there? Maybe then you might.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
Once again...how? Thatcher hated Mugabe and the feeling was mutual. Throughout her government, Thatcher was attacked constantly for being soft on South Africa.

And when you say "people" do you mean the white minorities?

Have you ever owned property in southern Africa by any chance?

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I've never met a Rhodesian who does not think they were sold out and betrayed by Thatcher. Does that answer it?

Okay. I think we've gone as far as we can with this subject so maybe let's talk about the Anglo-Irish agreement. What's your beef there? Who got sold out because last time I looked, N.Ireland is still British and the main loyalist party there are now part of the UK government. And do you not accept that it was a vital part of the road to peace?

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Have you been to southern Africa and perhaps lived there? Maybe then you might.

I've already told you I have lived there. But enough about this because as I've already written I don't think there's much point going over this point so please let's discuss your gripe about the Anglo-Irish Agreement.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
Okay. I think we've gone as far as we can with this subject so maybe let's talk about the Anglo-Irish agreement. What's your beef there? Who got sold out because last time I looked, N.Ireland is still British and the main loyalist party there are now part of the UK government. And do you not accept that it was a vital part of the road to peace?

The Unionist Community were sold out at great surprise to Dublin by a Conservative and Unionist Government. Paisley went mental. Dublin couldn't believe a Conservative and Unionist Government would do this. Shall I carry on?

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
I've already told you I have lived there.

Forgive me, but where out of interest, I honestly cant recall?

B-right-on · Sep 27, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
It's scary really how many people have completely forgot about all the money the Tories have squandered

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You have a laugh? Blair and Brown have bankrupted this country to the point that we will NEVER recover from the debt that they have incurred unless there is a) hyperinflation b) cancellation of debt or c) we sell the country to the Germans (like Brown did wioth our gold reserves).

The Rivet · Sep 27, 2017

The ONLY answer is civil war!

Wrong-Direction · Sep 27, 2017

B-right-on said:
You have a laugh? Blair and Brown have bankrupted this country to the point that we will NEVER recover from the debt that they have incurred unless there is a) hyperinflation b) cancellation of debt or c) we sell the country to the Germans (like Brown did wioth our gold reserves).

So recovering means paying the people we rely on the most a pittance?

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Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
The Unionist Community were sold out at great surprise to Dublin by a Conservative and Unionist Government. Paisley went mental. Dublin couldn't believe a Conservative and Unionist Government would do this. Shall I carry on?

But Paisley was an extremist at that time who wanted no part in any deal even if it brought peace. Furthermore, the Official Ulster Unionists were the main party and they supported it so one can kind of presume that there was broad backing from the moderate Unionist community. I'd also add that later on Paisley watered down his views and by a huge extent to the point that he became friends with Martin McGuinness. And furthermore to that, the party that Paisley founded is now part of the UK government.

Paisley reacted the way he did because he feared that it would lead to a united Ireland but the benefit of hindsight made him become a relative moderate, a man happy to power-share with nationalists and it is clear that NONE of his fears have been realised. Instead we have peace and N.Ireland still an integral part of the UK.

So yes...please carry on and tell me, given all that, how the Unionist community have been sold out.

Buzzer · Sep 27, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Forgive me, but where out of interest, I honestly cant recall?

See the bit in bold.

Buzzer said:
I find it curious that you insist on referring to Rhodesia and I think that rather says something about your views on the region and perhaps your opinion on minority rule. I don't claim to have specialist knowledge although I lived in S Africa in the 90s and most whites from that country that I met referred to themselves as Zimbabweans or just 'Zims'. We just called them "when we's".

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
But Paisley was an extremist at that time who wanted no part in any deal even if it brought peace. Furthermore, the Official Ulster Unionists were the main party and they supported it so one can kind of presume that there was broad backing from the moderate Unionist community. I'd also add that later on Paisley watered down his views and by a huge extent to the point that he became friends with Martin McGuinness. And furthermore to that, the party that Paisley founded is now part of the UK government.

Paisley reacted the way he did because he feared that it would lead to a united Ireland but the benefit of hindsight made him become a relative moderate, a man happy to power-share with nationalists and it is clear that NONE of his fears have been realised. Instead we have peace and N.Ireland still an integral part of the UK.

So yes...please carry on and tell me, given all that, how the Unionist community have been sold out.

Because Thatcher and The Tories sold them old and Paisley didn't like and stormed conference...........Did The Right Reverend Ian Paisley know better .............its's a disgrace. It was done to The Rhodeis ..........shafted.......... a Conservative and Unionist Government

NooBHA · Sep 27, 2017

The Rivet said:
The ONLY answer is civil war!

It will probably be the first Civil War whereby the opposing Military or Social '' Coup '' doesn't need to hang the overthrown leader because they have already hung themselves

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
See the bit in bold.

But I'm a white African, who disagrees. Mma Winnie Madikizela-Mandela - NO FEAR.

ManOfSussex · Sep 27, 2017

Buzzer said:
See the bit in bold.

Where in ZA?

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