[Politics] Brexit

Buzzer · Jan 18, 2017

studio150 said:
I cant be bothered to go back over page after page to prove otherwise or where your comments are reversed.
But to keep you happy I have banned myself from this thread.

Blimey! Is there a need for such an over-dramatic gesture? Maybe just lay off the ad hominems, a tad was all I was after.

Baldseagull · Jan 18, 2017

larus said:
Based on what? Pure speculation. Well, I speculate that the elite have all taken a huge pay cut and distributed that to the poor

based on this.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/08/uks-top-bosses-earned-10-pay-rise-2015-average-salary-hit-55m
and this.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...biggest-pay-increases-this-year-a7052341.html
and this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/top-15-per-cent-earners-pay-20bn-income-tax/

Though that last one thinks we should give the most well off a break. Tory rag though innit.

Edit, wrong link at botom.

wellquickwoody · Jan 18, 2017

portslade seagull said:
There was some guy on the BBC think he owned some sort of carrot picking/packaging firm. He was complaining believe it or not about migrants returning home and the fact that he now had to pay higher wages to entice the locals to fill the vacancies. Proves a point I suppose about wages being surpressed by unskilled migrants

As long as you are happy to pay higher shop prices, fine, and are also happy to see crops rotting in the fields if they are not picked.

Buzzer · Jan 18, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
I don't like bullying at all but in fairness this seems quite mild compared to the stuff PPF and others (Maldini?) spew out.

Fair point but the difference being that I'm not sure too many people take what PPF says seriously in this thread and there's an active spoof account taking the royal piss out of him. There seems to be a fair bit of ganging up on Soulman by HT and Studio150 in this thread that just comes across as well...ganging up. Not sure who this Maldini character is, I'm afraid so can't comment.

sir albion · Jan 18, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
As long as you are happy to pay higher shop prices, fine, and are also happy to see crops rotting in the fields if they are not picked.

Christ didn't realise we've only been picking crops for the last 20 years or so......what is the world coming too :facepalm:

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 18, 2017

Soulman said:
Questions, questions..... this sprang to mind.

Bully

wellquickwoody · Jan 18, 2017

sir albion said:
Christ didn't realise we've only been picking crops for the last 20 years or so......what is the world coming too

Prices ARE going to rise, food, cars, holidays and mortgages, once your budget is hit on multiple fronts when you are already struggling is when many may start to wake up. Stop putting your head in the sand.

The Rivet · Jan 18, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
Prices ARE going to rise, food, cars, holidays and mortgages, once your budget is hit on multiple fronts when you are already struggling is when many may start to wake up. Stop putting your head in the sand.

Many woke up to that BEFORE the referendum and voted accordingly. Some don't earn enough to be totally self sufficient and ask for welfare. They cant afford holidays especially and maybe not cars. The forgotten. This situation was prevalent long ago.

pastafarian · Jan 18, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
We must agree to disagree about what drove many people, people with zero interest in politics, to vote as they did..

more deliberate misinterpreting of what i wrote, which was on the consequences of the vote not the reasons for voting.
no wonder you omitted what i wrote in your response.

Lincoln Imp said:
If this is true you clearly live in a different universe to the rest of us, some sort of place where it is regarded as free and democratic for a government to tell people whereabouts in their own country they are and are not allowed to work,

i forgot to ask......what is this nonsense?
who is suggesting we cant move about our own country?

GT49er · Jan 18, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
.....................................................happy to see crops rotting in the fields if they are not picked.

Viva set-aside?

GT49er · Jan 18, 2017

Baldseagull said:
What if the commons agree it, and one of the EU 27 doesn't?

The Commons would be voting on whether to accept an agreement. An agreement, get it? It will have been agreed by the EU (including every little tin-pot town in wherever), and our Parliament will be asked whether or not t accept the AGREEMENT.

Geez! Next thing you'll be moaning that you can't understand 'Brexit means Brexit'. It means, we're leaving.

JC Footy Genius · Jan 18, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
I agree with your analysis and, like you, don't think that enough MPs will have the balls to vote down an agreement. The vote will be interesting when it happens - it won't just be Labour MPs in the frame though. There will presumably be a smattering of conservatives, all but a couple of Scottish MPs and that small number of LibDems.

If - unlikely - the vote went against the government then they would immediately call an election. It would be the oddest election ever. Unless the deal with the EU was transparently and obviously terrible then Mrs May and the Brexiteers would surely win it easily.

Yes I only mentioned Labour as their opposition would be the crucial element bringing the other parties and tory rebels into play. I can virtually guarantee most of them will condemn whatever deal is reached saying it falls short of what is promised but I can't see May who has played such a canny game securing her job and setting out her Brexit stall being stupid enough to settle for a Cameronesque deal. As she said no deal is better than a bad one.

If by some bizarre set of circumstances a majority does vote against it I would also expect a likely Tory/Pro Brexit landslide at the following general election.

Baldseagull said:
So the unelected house of Lords could decide this, how very democratic.

Both UK houses of parliament get to vote on the deal, yes very democratic.

Baldseagull · Jan 18, 2017

GT49er said:
The Commons would be voting on whether to accept an agreement. An agreement, get it? It will have been agreed by the EU (including every little tin-pot town in wherever), and our Parliament will be asked whether or not t accept the AGREEMENT.

Geez! Next thing you'll be moaning that you can't understand 'Brexit means Brexit'. It means, we're leaving.

The negotiating teams will possibly get to an agreement, it will then need to be ratified, by the EU members and possibly the parliament, and our parliament will be asked to do likewise. Don't make out I am being thick or obtuse, the Canada deal is a recent example of an agreement being reached by the negotiators, both the EU's and Canada's, and a member state, via one of its constituent states, objecting and effectively blocking the deal until it's concerns were addressed.
Get it?

Baldseagull · Jan 18, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
Yes I only mentioned Labour as their opposition would be the crucial element bringing the other parties and tory rebels into play. I can virtually guarantee most of them will condemn whatever deal is reached saying it falls short of what is promised but I can't see May who has played such a canny game securing her job and setting out her Brexit stall being stupid enough to settle for a Cameronesque deal. As she said no deal is better than a bad one.

If by some bizarre set of circumstances a majority does vote against it I would also expect a likely Tory/Pro Brexit landslide at the following general election.

Both UK houses of parliament get to vote on the deal, yes very democratic.

Not as democratic as the EU though, where no unelected official will get to block or ratify the deal.

Baldseagull · Jan 18, 2017

pastafarian said:
more deliberate misinterpreting of what i wrote, which was on the consequences of the vote not the reasons for voting.
no wonder you omitted what i wrote in your response.

i forgot to ask......what is this nonsense?
who is suggesting we cant move about our own country?

You did, well you suggested it shouldn't be allowed, not that it isn't.

GT49er · Jan 19, 2017

Baldseagull said:
The negotiating teams will possibly get to an agreement, it will then need to be ratified, by the EU members and possibly the parliament, and our parliament will be asked to do likewise. Don't make out I am being thick or obtuse, the Canada deal is a recent example of an agreement being reached by the negotiators, both the EU's and Canada's, and a member state, via one of its constituent states, objecting and effectively blocking the deal until it's concerns were addressed.
Get it?

Absolutely. And when it's ratified, it will be put to Parliament. So, the deal will be on the table. Ratified. Parliament either accepts it, or says no, stuff it, we'll go with WTO. Either way, we're out. It is NOT a vote to say we don't like the deal, so please can we re-join and sorry for making a fuss!

Baldseagull · Jan 19, 2017

GT49er said:
Absolutely. And when it's ratified, it will be put to Parliament. So, the deal will be on the table. Ratified. Parliament either accepts it, or says no, stuff it, we'll go with WTO. Either way, we're out. It is NOT a vote to say we don't like the deal, so please can we re-join and sorry for making a fuss!

Yes, but the being out whatever aspect is not what you were getting stroppy about earlier is it?
It might happen the way you suggest, but I would think that if an agreement is reached that May is happy with, she will put it to parliament at the same time that the EU put it before their members, I would guess it would be quicker to be approved or rejected here than it would be there, so I expect the EU decision will come in after, unless of course our Parliament rejects and then it is back to the negotiating table.

GT49er · Jan 19, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
Prices ARE going to rise, food, cars, holidays and mortgages.................

Yes, quite possibly. Leavers actually understood this - even though that's unacceptable to you - and decided OK, what the hell. A price worth paying, Happy with that. Even happier that we're ditching the EU.

wellquickwoody said:
Stop putting your head in the sand.

Heads well clear of sand, thank you!

pastafarian · Jan 19, 2017

Baldseagull said:
You did, well you suggested it shouldn't be allowed, not that is isn't.

eh
when did i do that?
I cant imagine i seriously suggested we should not be allowed to move freely about our own country.
if i did it was either a huge drunk typo or a huge drunk typo

GT49er · Jan 19, 2017

Baldseagull said:
Yes, but the being out whatever aspect is not what you were getting stroppy about earlier is it?
It might happen the way you suggest, but I would think that if an agreement is reached that May is happy with, she will put it to parliament at the same time that the EU put it before their members, I would guess it would be quicker to be approved or rejected here than it would be there, so I expect the EU decision will come in after, unless of course our Parliament rejects and then it is back to the negotiating table.

That would be playing stone, paper, scissors. No. Won't happen. A potential deal (agreed by the EU) will be put on the table. Sadly, there are still some who believe that a 'No' vote will mean we just cuddle up back in the EU as before........
That's not going to happen.

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