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Reaction to a thrashing .. and getting over it



G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Shropshire Seagull said:
Several of you on here will know I coach cricket to an elite performance level - Shropshire county boys. We play Derbyshire, Worcestershire, Cheshire, Herefordshire, Staffordshire & Warwickshire - when we play the first-class counties, some of the boys are already mentally beaten before the toss - you need to be able to find the right words to eek out and remove any inferiority complex, but worse can be complacency too.

In the situation of a thrashing, it is critical you decouple the result from the performance - look for positives in the performance [what did they do well] - things they tried to do but didn't execute particularly well [areas to develop]. In the debrief, I try to talk less and get them to self analyse - they usually know what they did wrong and if the analysis comes from within, its not seen like blatant coach criticism, No disgrace in losing to a better team - SO LONG AS you all tried your best - if you have players who's heads drop, you need the chirpy team-mates to get them over it [we've all seen this in park footy at some point, I'm sure]

Another favourite is to identify something they did badly [but already worked on in training] - often the youngsters can execute a skill really well in training, but under match intensity [pressure] the skill evaporates [was not used]. Try and find such a skill and focus the next training session on it so that the skill becomes second-nature.

After a big loss, you must remove "fear of failure" - stick to basics and perform them to the best of your ability.

Also worthy of consideration, what was the losing ingredient? Were the opposition tactically better, technically better or [esp for rugby] physically stronger?

One closing line I also like to use in the debrief: "Close your eyes and think back to the last game you won - what did you learn in that game that has improved you as a player now?" 30 seconds to think about it - hands up whose got 2 or more? Then hands up whose got one, then lastly, hands up whose got not learning takeaway from winning? "Now think back to the game [thrashing] we've just finished - what have your learned from that which could improve you as a player next time? [aka what could we do differently with our performance that might change the result]" Show of hands as before - "Morale; You learn more from and improve by losing, winning is just fun while it lasted!"

Hope this helps ....
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That's really excellent advice and lots of pointers there.

We know exactly why we lost so heavily: they had two very fast wingers. Their tactic was to get the ball to them at the first opportunity and every time we missed a tackle or gave them space, they scored. Our two wingers were both away and we had no-one of that sort of pace.

But you do raise the point of the girls not putting into practice of what they've learned in training: it's something we're very conscious of and need to work on.

I like the idea of self-analysis though: I'm going to suggest we start our next training session with what they've learned from this defeat.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,203
Brovion said:
It was actually only 76-0. When city college returned the opening kickoff for a TD I knew it was going to be one-sided! Great day though and Withdean was packed, 12000 or so IIRC. PS - Brighton played a return game in San Francisco and the score was much narrower.
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No it wasn't. I was standing right behind the scoreboard when the score reached 99. The scoreboard people even had a bit of a debate as to what to do next. If memory serves. Which admittedly it may not sometimes. But on this occasion I'm pretty sure it did. Anyways, you know the rules. First rule of NSC: never let the truth get in the way of a good post :wink:
 


B

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,374
Tom Hark said:
No it wasn't. I was standing right behind the scoreboard when the score reached 99. The scoreboard people even had a bit of a debate as to what to do next. If memory serves. Which admittedly it may not sometimes. But on this occasion I'm pretty sure it did. Anyways, you know the rules. First rule of NSC: never let the truth get in the way of a good post :wink:
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No, 76-0. 2nd paragraph:
http://www.britballnow.co.uk/History/Articles/BrightonUStour.html

Mind you my comment that the "return game was closer" was also inaccurate as it was 77-6! (Yeah, 71 points instead of 76, but I could have sworn it was closer than that)
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,203
Brovion said:
No, 76-0. 2nd paragraph:
http://www.britballnow.co.uk/History/Articles/BrightonUStour.html
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Well they would say that, wouldn't they... :rolleyes:

Like I say, I was standing right behind the scoreboard - about three feet behind - while the match officials were earnestly discussing how least to embarrass the host club. They decided in the end not to flip the manual scoreboard into triple figures if memory serves. Or maybe they just stopped counting at 76. Score was certainly far more either way.
 


B

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,374
Tom Hark said:
Well they would say that, wouldn't they... :rolleyes:

Like I say, I was standing right behind the scoreboard - about three feet behind - while the match officials were earnestly discussing how least to embarrass the host club. They decided in the end not to flip the manual scoreboard into triple figures if memory serves. Or maybe they just stopped counting at 76. Score was certainly far more either way.
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Isn't that weird? I certainly don't remember the score being deliberately deflated, to my mind all the points seemed to be added as they were scored. They may have had a discussion at half time (when it was about 50-0) as to what should happen when the score passed 100 (as it seemed certain to do), but City College eased off a lot in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Brighton even got a first down! (Which got the biggest cheer of the day)
 




L

luppers

New member
Aug 10, 2008
798
Didim, Turkey
Teams can come back and surprise you. I the 1980s I attempted to run an under 9 football team. We lost every game in that first season, but the team spirit was super I had at least 15 lads turning up every week. I made sure that some time all of them got a game, some parents said I should only play the best team. Under 9s remember. the following season I had virtually the same set of lads in the under 10 league. Guess what we won it!
 


L

LeicesterGull

Active member
Feb 2, 2009
220
luppers said:
Teams can come back and surprise you. I the 1980s I attempted to run an under 9 football team. We lost every game in that first season, but the team spirit was super I had at least 15 lads turning up every week. I made sure that some time all of them got a game, some parents said I should only play the best team. Under 9s remember. the following season I had virtually the same set of lads in the under 10 league. Guess what we won it!
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I have those parents now at U6 level!
 






grubbyhands

grubbyhands

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2011
2,285
Godalming
Maybe try joining the Sutton Utd. fans forum and posting this question tomorrow. ( Or possibly the Arsenal Forum?)
 




hart's shirt

hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,191
Kitbag in Dubai
LeicesterGull said:
I've just taken on an U6 team. We've been winning all our friendlies and have a star player that is head and shoulders above everyone else. I took him off on Saturday for the final 10 mins (we play 40) to give the other boys game time to develop. At the end of the game he threw his shirt at me saying he didn't want to play for the team again! It's not a direct reply to the OP but wanted to share my angst with someone!
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An U6 treating the shirt with disrespect?

I know who'd be washing all the kit for the next game. And I'd insist to his parents that he does it all by himself.

See if he does it again...
 




G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Mackenzie said:
Have you tried shouting and extra press ups?
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We can all laugh but, sadly, I have seen coaches give dogs' abuse to 10/11 year old kids who have just lost. I'd take my children away that week if a coach behaved like that - I'm staggered that some parents put up with it
 


Lower West Stander

Lower West Stander

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2012
4,753
Back in Sussex
hans kraay fan club said:
So long as you can keep them smiling, you're winning [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION]

Seriously - that is the ONLY thing that matters. You're not trying to develop professionals.

I watched my youngest's U16 (football) match yesterday - they're a decent side who have had their share of promotions, titles and cup final glory through the age groups, but they've lost a few players and been promoted a little too far, and now at U16 level as a small local club are having to play teams from much bigger clubs / academies most weeks.

Yesterday we watched as they played with ten men, against a very strong side with 4 (rolling) subs, and battled like absolute heroes, with mostly smiles on their faces. They lost 4-1 in the end after holding out for a good while, but no matter - they were justifiably proud of their efforts.

The notable thing about the game was that the opposition were, almost without exception, absolute little (big actually) sh1ts. Snide challenges, backchat to the ref and (volunteer) linesman. Constant snide remarks and personal insults to our lads - even once winning comfortably.

Would rather see my sons lose graciously than be disrespectful in victory, any day.
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I experienced something very similar with my now 19 year old.

I think that age of football at a decent level but below academy is the worst I've experienced. 16 year olds think they are better than they really are and can be really nasty - it's more about what they can get away with half the time. It's almost like that's the age where they start to learn the dark arts and can show off to their mates and girlfriends.

And don't even get me started on the parents......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,213
Just far enough away from LDC
I'm still learning as a coach. The team I look after (under 8s) we do try and give everybody a game. However I would be lying if I said it was equal game time as some players need to have shorter bursts of playing whilst others are comfortable to play 15 mins straight off.

We do set a benchmark for all of them (that I only tell the player themselves about) so it may be getting 5 tackles in, looking at getting crosses in, it may be as simple as holding position.

After the game we assess on how the boys have done against that benchmark. Rather than the score. To me (especially at mini stage) it's about learning positions and passing and getting to a point of knowing when to pass and when to go on a run with the ball.

We have had some absolute pastings from good teams but we have also had some positive progression.
 




Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,970
Living In a Box
I managed my eldest sons team from 8s to 16s including ensuring finding a team for the 6 players who went on to U18s.

We had many ups and downs, massive wins and mega thrashings and many awkward parents plus some very helpful ones.

By the time we reached the last season as U16s we only had 15 players and no recognised keeper and to be honest I was dreading it. Strangely it was probably our best season, we finished 3rd in the league and quarter finalists in the league cup. To watch the boys every Saturday morning at training collectively agree who would go in goal and take responsibility to all ensure they could get to the game was very rewarding.

When the season ended they presented me with a BHAFC shirt, bought a tear to my eye.
 


T

timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
9,903
Sussex
find something good that every player did in the match, exaggerate if you have to, and go through it player by player in front of the team at this week's training session. Ask them to think about it over the next few days do it again in the next match, even if it was trying to tackle, pass the ball, or whatever. Everyone responds to praise.

Also praise yourself for getting the kids exercising in the fresh air for a couple of hours
 


Mackenzie

Mackenzie

Old Brightonian
Nov 7, 2003
33,545
East Wales
Gwylan said:
We can all laugh but, sadly, I have seen coaches give dogs' abuse to 10/11 year old kids who have just lost. I'd take my children away that week if a coach behaved like that - I'm staggered that some parents put up with it
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We've picked up a load of children from another club in our area for that very reason.
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Mackenzie said:
We've picked up a load of children from another club in our area for that very reason.
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Staggering.

This has been a really constructive thread. It's given my plenty to think about and I've had a brief chat with my daughter (who's quite positive). I should say that the head coach at the club was brilliant at picking up their spirits and accentuating the positives but I've got a few useful ideas for next time
 




S

Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,506
Telford
Gwylan said:
That's really excellent advice and lots of pointers there.

We know exactly why we lost so heavily: they had two very fast wingers. Their tactic was to get the ball to them at the first opportunity and every time we missed a tackle or gave them space, they scored. Our two wingers were both away and we had no-one of that sort of pace.

But you do raise the point of the girls not putting into practice of what they've learned in training: it's something we're very conscious of and need to work on.

I like the idea of self-analysis though: I'm going to suggest we start our next training session with what they've learned from this defeat.
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Depends on the squad, but I also encourage "reflective notes" on the day of the thrashing, before they go to sleep that evening, ask them to jot down [commit to paper] 3 things they could have done better / different [coaches should do this too on reflecting their own coaching sessions]. Ask for these notes to be passed back to you next match / training session, confirm they will be private in that you won't share the name of the person to the group when next you discuss. This also pulls out the team analysts from the individual analysts - some will say "I" and others may use "We" - I find this interesting as some will beat themselves up and only consider their contribution & personal fails - others like to blame other members in the team - you can learn a lot about your squad members from this approach.

Hardest - the challenge of making game based practice competitive is a constant challenge for all coaches in all sports - match pressure is just impossible to recreate and its getting them to perform under [match] pressure where the quality shines through.

It's good that you have spotted a clear cause of the thrashing in their pacy wingers - I'm no rugby coach but this sounds like you need to encourage them to think tactically - once you've got them to self-analyse to come up with the main cause for themselves [pacy wingers] - break them out into groups of 3 or 4 asking them to come up with some suggestions as to how they might be able to counter this scenario if it comes up again [the learning process] - then the killer finish - great tactics girls, now lets practice that theory so that we can perform it under pressure. You'll need to devise the drills / games that enable that tactic to be deployed.

Good luck - as with others above, keep them happy and with smiles on their faces is a no-brainer for EVERY sports coach at any level - we talk a lot about the "F" word in our training - the boys giggle a bit because they know I mean the F word is FUN.

Oh, and I don't just coach elite players - last year a club approached the cricket board for a coach to get their newly formed ladies team in to shape - I took on the challenge [as I needed the extra cash] we/they lost every game but the focus was always on the performance, what we did well, and what we could be better. They came within 2 runs of winning the last game of the season - everyone of them loved the sessions, they could all see the leaps of progress they had made in a very short space of time - basics are important and so is fun.

Good luck
 
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madinthehead

madinthehead

I have changed this
Jan 22, 2009
1,752
Oberursel, Germany
In my cub games, I played for Gillwell in Burgess Hill. We got beat 22-0 and 13-4 by Ditchling, but still managed to win quite a lot of games in between. As a kid, I dont think you dwell too much on the previous game.. I don't remember going into any game expecting to lose.. I guess that losing mentality is one that you grow into..
 


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