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Tea/coffee and late 1901 ticket - Paul Barber reply and then another Paul Barber reply
- Thread starter Giraffe
- Start date
Exactly right. I'm not a 1901-er and on the face of it it's a pathetic complaint, but it's the principle. We all know the club is losing money and we accept that it has to make whatever savings it can, but Mr Barber does occasionally sound as if he should be working for SASTA the way these changes are announced. As with the Seven Stars bar row earlier the club need to be more honest and up-front when announcing these measures instead of hiding behind weasle-words, trying to justify the changes with faux market research, and probably worse: announcing them ex post facto.. We CAN take the honesty Paul, try us. After all, what was that slogan again? #Together?.
This.
I would also argue that PB is on a sticky wicket claiming that the free tea/coffee isn't contractual. He may be right that it is isn't written in the contract, but if the club have provided it foc at their cost for the last 3.5 years, and at the supplier's cost for the previous 1.5 years (source: PB's email), then, under Common Law, I would say there's a strong custom and practice precedent that has been set. Could they have explicitly removed the custom and practice prior to getting the new contracts in place? Yes, of course - as they did with communicating that friendlies, etc. are no longer included. The unilateral retrospective action would, imo, be viewed dimly by a Court given there's a 5 year precedent.
Personally, I'm not that bothered by it - the queue for the tea was long, and there was always a scrum around the milk, which always ran out anyway. However, the principle of the thing is wrong, and, imo, is quite possibly breach of implied contract anyway.
Did anyone here look at or respond to the survey sent out to 1901ers?
I'm just curious if it was along the lines of "Please rank these in order of importance to you" and then listed various aspects of the 1901 package, with those that scored the lowest, such as friendlies and hot drinks, being culled.
I ask because if that was the format, it may not mean that hot drinks are viewed as not important to 1901 Club members, just less important than some other elements. Less important doesn't necessarily equate to not important.
I'm just curious if it was along the lines of "Please rank these in order of importance to you" and then listed various aspects of the 1901 package, with those that scored the lowest, such as friendlies and hot drinks, being culled.
I ask because if that was the format, it may not mean that hot drinks are viewed as not important to 1901 Club members, just less important than some other elements. Less important doesn't necessarily equate to not important.
Knotty
Well-known member
This.
I would also argue that PB is on a sticky wicket claiming that the free tea/coffee isn't contractual. He may be right that it is isn't written in the contract, but if the club have provided it foc at their cost for the last 3.5 years, and at the supplier's cost for the previous 1.5 years (source: PB's email), then, under Common Law, I would say there's a strong custom and practice precedent that has been set. Could they have explicitly removed the custom and practice prior to getting the new contracts in place? Yes, of course - as they did with communicating that friendlies, etc. are no longer included. The unilateral retrospective action would, imo, be viewed dimly by a Court given there's a 5 year precedent.
Personally, I'm not that bothered by it - the queue for the tea was long, and there was always a scrum around the milk, which always ran out anyway. However, the principle of the thing is wrong, and, imo, is quite possibly breach of implied contract anyway.
Court
?!!!It's a cup of tea FFS!
Court
It's a cup of tea FFS!
*Sigh*
Knotty
Well-known member
My feelings entirely!
TEAGATE
Taybha
Whalewhine
If my business was losing 1.5 million a month i would be thinking what clowns have i got running my business rather than worrying about free tea bags .
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
The cost saving argument is rather undone by the incredibly lavish presentation boxes and 1901 enamelled badges (what kind of nonce will wear one of those) that accompanied the unnecessary new cards and lanyards.
The type of person who might wear an enamelled badge might also wear a Union Flag waistcoat to work, perhaps?
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,229
That in itself is an indication of the club's warped attitude to 1901'ers. Corporates are like children. Rightly or wrongly, they expect a bit of pampering for their big bucks outlay. They certainly don't expect to have to form a scrum for the last bit of milk.
Storm in a teacup.
D
Deleted User X18H
Guest
Well l'll be wearing mine.
Badge or waistcoat?
D
Deleted User X18H
Guest
Both !
Wellesley
Well-known member
- Jul 24, 2013
- 4,973
Tim Brooke-Taylor?
- Aug 8, 2005
- 26,567
- Thread starter
- #119
Good question.
I completed the survey as I am sure most did as we have a vested interest.
As I recall I believe the way the tea/coffee question was raised was alongside how important to you is the seat view, the ability to park, the free programme, the lounge access etc. So very much a free cup of tea is going to look less important than your seat clearly. Had they asked the question, would you like a new pass sent to you after the first game or keep the free tea and coffee at half time, 99% of people would have asked to keep the free tea and coffee.
There was as I recall no question about friendlies at all. They just announced that as part of the renewal process. Again though this is massively short sighted, given surely they want to encourage attendance at these things to make them pay?
So far those 1901 ers I have spoken to have been able to check their post (I haven't yet) have not received their tickets today. the 15% quoted by Paul Barber cannot be right, as I have sampled 20 and no one has received one yet! Not saying he is lying, I don't believe he is, I suspect he has just not been told the full facts.
Dick Swiveller
Well-known member
- Sep 9, 2011
- 9,159
Very much the latter. It was never - which of these could you do without to save money. It was along the lines of how important do you rate the following. In hindsight, you can see what they were doing but not at the time. No-one in good conscience is going to rate free tea and coffee as high as the view from my seat for example. In honesty, I only drank the coffee at day games which are becoming fewer. And it wasn't very nice. It is no great loss to me and I won't be buying one to replace it. It was nice on a cold afternoon to have your half time beer, get a coffee when the queue had died down and take it back to your seat as something warm. It was a nice touch but would in no way have been a deal breaker if they would have said they were removing it as part of the renewal pack when they mentioned contractual changes such as friendlies and European games.
What really sticks in my craw is that when the club do things that upset people and then complain to Barber, he normally comes back with straight talking answers. But this time, I and a few others see some his responses as weasel words/politician style responses. Saving a few grand whilst wasting a few thousand on unnecessary new cards (and badges apparently although as I have yet to receive mine, I will rely on others for this info) and hundreds of thousands on the lounges - the bulk of which is creating an expensive restaurant. I will reserve judgement on these changes until I see what they have done to my lounge but I am not holding my breath. But spending all of this money and then blaming huge losses for removing a relatively cheap option that the club themselves acknowledged was a goodwill gesture does not sit right with me.
Also, no email informing us of the postal problems and how to arrange for a ticket for tonight until 20 minutes ago and that just tells me to contact a telephone number. Compounding a problem of leaving ticket posting to the last moment and having someone else screw it up by not emailing people to outline the problem and explain workarounds is terrible customer service. Given that these things are happening just after we have signed up for another 5 years makes me feel, rightly or wrongly, that now they have me signed up, they can let standards slip. And if we complain, it is blamed on the huge losses the club are facing. It isn't my fault we have been paying Holla to do nothing for years. If you want to cut costs then be up front about it before you get people to commit long term. Especially when there have been a few previous verbal promises at the 1901 presentations that have gone by the wayside already.
I am really not that bothered by losing rather unpleasant coffee but I'm worried this is that start of a slippery slope.