No Southern Trains Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday

alfredmizen · Dec 13, 2016

vegster said:
It is just a backdoor way of cutting costs, ticket office staff can advise a passenger on what is the best deal.... a ticket machine can't.

Spot on, it's a race to the bottom, same as the issue with the Guards, if my Mrs is.travelling home from London at.11.o clock at night I want a bloody guard on the train

mikeyjh · Dec 13, 2016

Simster said:
The thing is, most of the "sack the lot" brigade are like that because they use the "service". Personally I am seething that everybody in the industry clearly behaves in a way that suggests it doesn't matter what utterly shithouse service I receive for my £2,600 a year. Any other business and they'd all be out of a job, from the fat incompetent bosses at the top to the grumpy surly miserabalists at the coal face who have no idea of customer service at the best of times.

If you're going to take the side of one of the parties responsible for this outrage and want to get the public onside, I think you need to be reacting with a bit more humility.

The shame of it is that when you do provide answers, they are often quite reasonable. If you're fed up with seeing what you consider are ignorant posts, you're probably better off ignoring them than replying calling them an idiot.

I know this wasn't the thrust of your post but I wanted to call something out - I cannot recall many other instances where a business has so brazenly blamed their institutional incompetence on their staff? I know the railways are a pretty special case but typically customer deals with business, business deals with staff. I cannot imagine people complaining to Tesco that there are no turkeys available before Christmas and Tesco responding "Sorry about that, it's because our staff are sh1t and lazy". Southern, and the government, are ultimately responsible for the delivery of services and should be held accountable for doing so. I think it's scandalous that (and this has gone one for years), these privatised institutions supported by an ever willing press are so happy to pass the buck.

Surely also the responsibility to train 'surly miserablists' at the coal face is the responsibility of the employer?

mikeyjh · Dec 13, 2016

Spiros said:
My guess is that as it's the only train the whole day it was decided that it's safer to skip those stations altogether. I know quite a few people who originally said that they would get the GWR train from Worthing to Brighton this morning. That would cause a proper fight at all of the Southern only stations.

Safer, or cheaper and more convenient?

Simster · Dec 13, 2016

I agree with every single word of that, [MENTION=12706]mikeyjh[/MENTION].

Spicy · Dec 13, 2016

mothy said:
Today I'm getting the thameslink to Croydon. Tram to Wimbledon & northern line. Simple!

Good luck with that.

Beach Hut · Dec 13, 2016

WFH yet again, seems to be the norm now

deletebeepbeepbeep · Dec 13, 2016

Thameslink services running okay, seems to be plenty of seats.

Audax · Dec 13, 2016

M25 was surprisingly quiet this morning. I was expecting chaos...

(Last night, on the other hand, was a clusterf... 2x broken down lorries, one each either side of J7, and the "competent individuals" tasked with dealing with it decided to create the world's longest and slowest chicane by closing lanes 3 and 4 (of 4) for the first one, and lanes 1 and 2 (of 3) for the second one. Thankfully I can take alternate route down the M23 instead of A22 and only had to deal with the first one.)

Spiros · Dec 13, 2016

mikeyjh said:
Safer, or cheaper and more convenient?

Probably more convenient for GWR, but that train quite often gets busy especially if the Southern trains are delayed. It's not a big train either. By the time it got to Shoreham you'd have no chance of getting on it.

alfredmizen · Dec 13, 2016

Deadly Danson said:
I've ducked out of these threads for a while and will probably do so again but having read a lot of the vitriol and some more informed comment (even if I don't agree with it all) I'm just going to say this. This is my personal opinion - and I won't be going back and forth over the arguments and history of DOO again because I think, as Bozza said about 200 pages in the original thread, the arguments just go round in circles but...I will be going on strike not because I'm a 70s dinosaur (I'm not), not because I'm a RMT or ASLEF “puppet” (I'm not) and not because I'm against modernisation (I'm not). I will be going on strike because I absolutely, fundamentally, hand on heart believe it is the right and only thing to do in the circumstances. I believe that the extension of DOO will make the railway a less safe, less pleasant and less customer focused place (at best it just removes one layer of safety and customer service), especially for the disabled, the vulnerable, the elderly etc. I am convinced that the changes already being imposed by GTR and the government are nothing whatsoever to do with improving customer service and have everything to do with cutting costs (none of which will be passed on to customers). I am certain that none of their plans have anything to do with “modernisation” (apart from a few new Gatwick Express trains, nothing has changed) and am equally certain that if the guards' role at Southern is lost then they will be ultimately lost throughout the network. I also know (because it is happening every day) that the “exceptional circumstances” where a train may be allowed to leave without an On Board Supervisor is already basically “whenever it suits Southern.” I also know that this is government/Dft led but I am not especially anti-Tory – that's just a fact and it is exceptionally frustrating when you hear Grayling and Co coming out with blatant untruths and distorted truths that the general public believe (see today's statement about state of the art trains which have nothing whatsoever to do with the dispute). We may lose the fight but, if we do, I will at least I will be able to say I stood up for what I believed in and, if there is a major incident in the future, I can say I did all I could to prevent it. And on the anniversary of the Clapham disaster it's worth remembering that ensuring a safe railway is the ultimate objective.

You may argue that if I don't like the changes I can leave, you may argue that the railway is better with fewer staff and driver only trains, you may argue that you don't care about the causes of the dispute; all you want is to get to your destination - and they are valid objections but rather than just throw abuse at us perhaps at least understand why we are striking. I wouldn't expect the travelling public to throw their unwavering support behind us when they can't get to work, to football or to their families but you should at least know that for this driver at least, and I believe the vast majority of drivers about to go on strike, I am genuinely doing this in the hope that you will have a better, safer and more reliable service in the future. Again, I thank those on this site who, even though they are having hellish journeys every day, have expressed support, can see the bigger picture and can see what is actually happening and are doing their best to inform others. I have never been on strike before (it is not a decision I have taken lightly – I don't like throwing away at least 6 days pay and depriving people of the chance to travel) and am hoping that the strikes and threat of strikes will mean the government will enable GTR to think again about their ill-thought-out plans and we will see a return to a fully staffed, safe and hopefully bit more reliable railway. Again, I'm not going to debate the issues again – I just wanted people to know that we are not “scum” as we have been called on here – and rightly or wrongly I believe we are doing the right thing.
And just to answer one question from today – we already use simulators in training, they are not very good but they are used.

Great post

Hotchilidog · Dec 13, 2016

mikeyjh said:
Southern, and the government, are ultimately responsible for the delivery of services and should be held accountable for doing so. I think it's scandalous that (and this has gone one for years), these privatised institutions supported by an ever willing press are so happy to pass the buck.

Surely also the responsibility to train 'surly miserablists' at the coal face is the responsibility of the employer?

Wow. This in an absolute nutshell. perfectly put. It also tells us why we have been talking round in circles onhere for the past few months from whichever viewpoint each poster has. The fundamentals of the situation have not really changed from day one. The main point being that when GTR accepted the management contract, they did so knowing that they were not in a position to deliver what they had promised and since day one have done nothing to increase the possibility of them doing so. In fact they have done the exact opposite by successfully negotiating several reductions in the service they have been PAID to provide. Despite that they have still failed to meet the most generous of punctuality targets.

Obviously the problems today, wednesday and friday will be down to the unions, the chaos yesterday, and every other no-strike day (of which there have been 330 odd in the last year) are not. it is down to the incomptence, indifference and malice of those who make the daily decisions about rail travel on the GTR network.

vegster · Dec 13, 2016

mikeyjh said:
Anyone know why there is no Gatwick Express service? Or why this train in particular is cancelled between Brighton and Chichester?

View attachment 80150

Tried to get Mrs V on the First Great Western service to Brighton this morning, North side of Worthing Station gated off so drove round to main entrance. ...
She asked the man at the barrier if she could get on the 7.59 to Brighton and was told no, the service is only dropping off and not picking up passengers!

I reckon this is the same train that terminated at Brighton going back West but Southern don't want it to pick up for some reason and as such will be a " Ghost Train " run, just to fulfil the operators contract requirements....

alfredmizen · Dec 13, 2016

Beach Hut said:
Are they though given the range of options on buying tickets and media available to do it.

There is absolutely no need to go to a ticket office these days as everything you require is automated be it on-line or via a vending machine

Rubbish , the extremely helpful bloke on the barrier at Haywards Heath (his name is sav any of his bosses are reading this)only last week told me to go to the ticket office as the machine couldn't do my ticket as cheap as the office.

vegster · Dec 13, 2016

Put Mrs V on the 700 on the seafront after our failure to train....she went over the Norfolk Bridge in Shoreham at 8.57...., so that's 55 minutes for about 4 miles.

Blue Valkyrie · Dec 13, 2016

Reasonably slow through Broadwater at 6:45 this morning.

Glad I was early, it would have been chilli con carthage 30 minutes later. I'd still be in gridlock now :nono:

Black Rod · Dec 13, 2016

This is probably a stupid question, but is delay repay valid during the strikes?

Kalimantan Gull · Dec 13, 2016

Deadly Danson said:
I've ducked out of these threads for a while and will probably do so again but having read a lot of the vitriol and some more informed comment (even if I don't agree with it all) I'm just going to say this. This is my personal opinion - and I won't be going back and forth over the arguments and history of DOO again because I think, as Bozza said about 200 pages in the original thread, the arguments just go round in circles but...I will be going on strike not because I'm a 70s dinosaur (I'm not), not because I'm a RMT or ASLEF “puppet” (I'm not) and not because I'm against modernisation (I'm not). I will be going on strike because I absolutely, fundamentally, hand on heart believe it is the right and only thing to do in the circumstances. I believe that the extension of DOO will make the railway a less safe, less pleasant and less customer focused place (at best it just removes one layer of safety and customer service), especially for the disabled, the vulnerable, the elderly etc. I am convinced that the changes already being imposed by GTR and the government are nothing whatsoever to do with improving customer service and have everything to do with cutting costs (none of which will be passed on to customers). I am certain that none of their plans have anything to do with “modernisation” (apart from a few new Gatwick Express trains, nothing has changed) and am equally certain that if the guards' role at Southern is lost then they will be ultimately lost throughout the network. I also know (because it is happening every day) that the “exceptional circumstances” where a train may be allowed to leave without an On Board Supervisor is already basically “whenever it suits Southern.” I also know that this is government/Dft led but I am not especially anti-Tory – that's just a fact and it is exceptionally frustrating when you hear Grayling and Co coming out with blatant untruths and distorted truths that the general public believe (see today's statement about state of the art trains which have nothing whatsoever to do with the dispute). We may lose the fight but, if we do, I will at least I will be able to say I stood up for what I believed in and, if there is a major incident in the future, I can say I did all I could to prevent it. And on the anniversary of the Clapham disaster it's worth remembering that ensuring a safe railway is the ultimate objective.

You may argue that if I don't like the changes I can leave, you may argue that the railway is better with fewer staff and driver only trains, you may argue that you don't care about the causes of the dispute; all you want is to get to your destination - and they are valid objections but rather than just throw abuse at us perhaps at least understand why we are striking. I wouldn't expect the travelling public to throw their unwavering support behind us when they can't get to work, to football or to their families but you should at least know that for this driver at least, and I believe the vast majority of drivers about to go on strike, I am genuinely doing this in the hope that you will have a better, safer and more reliable service in the future. Again, I thank those on this site who, even though they are having hellish journeys every day, have expressed support, can see the bigger picture and can see what is actually happening and are doing their best to inform others. I have never been on strike before (it is not a decision I have taken lightly – I don't like throwing away at least 6 days pay and depriving people of the chance to travel) and am hoping that the strikes and threat of strikes will mean the government will enable GTR to think again about their ill-thought-out plans and we will see a return to a fully staffed, safe and hopefully bit more reliable railway. Again, I'm not going to debate the issues again – I just wanted people to know that we are not “scum” as we have been called on here – and rightly or wrongly I believe we are doing the right thing.
And just to answer one question from today – we already use simulators in training, they are not very good but they are used.

Can you send that letter to the papers?

mikeyjh · Dec 13, 2016

Spiros said:
Probably more convenient for GWR, but that train quite often gets busy especially if the Southern trains are delayed. It's not a big train either. By the time it got to Shoreham you'd have no chance of getting on it.

Yeah, you're probably right but my cynicism regarding Southern knows no bounds!

DFL JCL · Dec 13, 2016

From my perspective, i am a commuter (fortunately on Thameslink rather than southern) and i am sympathetic (on the whole) to the unions position. The thing that disappoints me most, is how we tolerate the rail companies degrading the service. I can't see a scenario whereby taking guards off of trains can be anything other than a diminished service. Irrespective of whether there are other lines i.e Thameslink that operate without a guard. All that means to me is that they have already degraded the Thameslink service. Running these services at the bare minimum of quality just to produce cost savings, which incidentally aren't ever passed on to the customer isn't what i want. We pay a high cost to use the rail network. I don't expect a low quality service, and when i say quality i also mean safe. Southern can probably get by without guards on their trains, as Thameslink already does. That doesn't mean that we should tolerate it.

wellquickwoody · Dec 13, 2016

vegster said:
Put Mrs V on the 700 on the seafront after our failure to train....she went over the Norfolk Bridge in Shoreham at 8.57...., so that's 55 minutes for about 4 miles.

Yep, took me an hour and 10 for Worthing to Southwick this morning by car. Mind you, Southern need not worry about that so much as Mrs Woody getting damp feet and legs on her walk to Worthing town centre because I had the car, Charles Horton is in really deep shit now!

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