Europe again. Unaccountable and undemocratic. This sums it up.

larus · Jul 13, 2015

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-demands-Britain-joins-Greek-rescue-fund.html

Sorry, I realise that there is a Greece bailout thread, but this is a separate issue and I thought it warranted a different thread.

I read that the agreement which the UK had not to be part and any more EuroZone bailouts is looking like it is going to be torn up, as it's not legally binding. It's a political agreement.

So, who will trust the EU with whatever 'promises' CMD gets before our referendum?

larus · Jul 13, 2015

So a Thumbs Down from [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION]. No surprise there. He's obviously happy to see agreements reneged on.. We can agree something, and then change our mind if it suits us.

So much for democracy. I suppose in his world, democracy only applies to those who agree with him.

Tom Bombadil · Jul 13, 2015

larus said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-demands-Britain-joins-Greek-rescue-fund.html

I read that the agreement which the UK had not to be part and any more EuroZone bailouts is looking like it is going to be torn up, as it's not legally binding. It's a political agreement.

I am struggling to understand this, can you put it in simple english please

larus · Jul 13, 2015

Voroshilov said:
I am struggling to understand this, can you put it in simple english please

Sorry, too much haste

....

I read that the agreement which the UK had, which was not to be part of any more EuroZone bailouts, is looking like it is going to be torn up, as it's not legally binding. It's just a political agreement.

beorhthelm · Jul 13, 2015

Voroshilov said:
I am struggling to understand this, can you put it in simple english please

Junker the EU president wants to use somthing called the EFSM to back some of the Greek bailout. as it was an EU creature, UK will be expected to pay into it, even though at some point in the past the fund was shut down to be replaced by ESM (which is eurozone only).

GT49er · Jul 13, 2015

Tragic result today. A 'Grexit' could have been the first pebble that became an avalanche that sent the whole rotten edifice into meltdown. and all the greedy spongers existing on the back of it thrown on to the dole queue. An opportunity missed - still,, there will be another one soon (I hope).

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 13, 2015

larus said:
So a Thumbs Down from [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION]. No surprise there. He's obviously happy to see agreements reneged on.. We can agree something, and then change our mind if it suits us.

So much for democracy. I suppose in his world, democracy only applies to those who agree with him.

Yawn and another thumbs down :smile:

larus · Jul 13, 2015

GT49er said:
Tragic result today. A 'Grexit' could have been the first pebble that became an avalanche that sent the whole rotten edifice into meltdown. and all the greedy spongers existing on the back of it thrown on to the dole queue. An opportunity missed - still,, there will be another one soon (I hope).

Italy is the real problem. Stagnating economy, rising Debt/GDP ratio and much too large to bail-out.

The West needs 3 things IMO:
1. Growth stimulus.
2. Tighten up on the tax evasion by the super-rich and international corporations. Forget the imaginary 50% tax of those earning up to say £500k; that reallly isn't the problem.
3. A realisation the the social models promised by politicians aren't affordable. The welfare state needs to be viewed as a safety net, not a life-style choice.

In the UK, we also need a sensible house-building plan which will lead to a gradual reduction in the housing pressures and house prices. This will impact positively for the younger generation, who are getting royally screwed currently.

larus · Jul 13, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yawn and another thumbs down

What an intellectual response. No comments in support of what Juncker proposes I see. Just a cheap Thumbs Down twice. Oh well, I suppose you can't defend that can you :thumbsup:

Notters · Jul 13, 2015

Vive La Union Européene

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 13, 2015

larus said:
What an intellectual response. No comments in support of what Juncker proposes I see. Just a cheap Thumbs Down twice. Oh well, I suppose you can't defend that can you

It's more to with the fact I can't be arsed to post my feelings a second time in a second thread on the subject.

Shuggie · Jul 13, 2015

Surely Juncker and friends can't really be so stupid as to think this won't alienate us further ?

Christ, I thought they were supposed to some sort of political elite rather than a bunch of f***wits.

And all for a measly €1bn.

cunning fergus · Jul 13, 2015

Notters said:
Vive La Union Européene

Ja, Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher.........

East Preston Gull · Jul 13, 2015

An agreement to privatise Greek state run institutions is part of this deal. I wonder which countries will have first dibs on the cookie jar, yes, you guessed it.......Germany and France!

I find this all very disturbing. The Germans are coming again. Greece, Spain, Italy are effectively run by German technocrats.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 13, 2015

If I were Georgie Boy I'd tell Junker the Wunker to do one. So the EU don't like the idea of Greece changing the rules after the fact but it's alright for the EU to do it to us ?? W@nkers and corrupt hypocrites every single one of them to a man and woman. The time has come, we should be OUT, OUT, OUT.

Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo! · Jul 13, 2015

beorhthelm said:
Junker the EU president wants to use somthing called the EFSM to back some of the Greek bailout. as it was an EU creature, UK will be expected to pay into it, even though at some point in the past the fund was shut down to be replaced by ESM (which is eurozone only).

I think money used under the EFSM comes from the financial markets.

beorhthelm · Jul 13, 2015

East Preston Gull said:
An agreement to privatise Greek state run institutions is part of this deal. I wonder which countries will have first dibs on the cookie jar, yes, you guessed it.......Germany and France!

I find this all very disturbing. The Germans are coming again. Greece, Spain, Italy are effectively run by German technocrats.

i thought i'd be the last to defend the EU, but there isnt half alot of bollocks being banded about. there is no "dibs", it will be be brought by those with the cash to buy. if any of the privatisations ever even happen, the original bailout in 2011 had provision for, oddly 50bn worth of assets to be privatised. about 4bn worth happened. this how thing is a farce, a sham, kicking the can down the road again.

beorhthelm · Jul 13, 2015

Alex said:
I think money used under the EFSM comes from the financial markets.

it was seeded with funds from all countries, to give some assets with which to back the funds raised. so you'r right the money is raised in the market, but everyone in the EU had to put into the hat first.

larus · Jul 13, 2015

beorhthelm said:
i thought i'd be the last to defend the EU, but there isnt half alot of bollocks being banded about. there is no "dibs", it will be be brought by those with the cash to buy. if any of the privatisations ever even happen, the original bailout in 2011 had provision for, oddly 50bn worth of assets to be privatised. about 4bn worth happened. this how thing is a farce, a sham, kicking the can down the road again.

This.

If the EuroZone want to be a single currency, it CAN ONLY HAPPEN AND WORK, with political and fiscal union too. Until that point in time, the fiscal imbalances of trade will continually impact the sovereign position of certain countries. Germany is as much to blame here as Greece, as they continually run HUGE surpluses, which is causing as much problem to the internal workings of the Euro, as are the deficits within other states.

The only reason the currency works in the UK/US is that there is an acceptance that we are all in it together. So, the excess wealth from London is 'transferred' to the poorer parts of the UK to support them there. This isn't happening in the EZ, and more importantly, is completely off the agenda.

Currency Unions with Fiscal/Political Unions have NEVER worked. They always fail eventually due to inner tensions,

Guinness Boy · Jul 13, 2015

cunning fergus said:
Ja, Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher.........

Blimey, you're a one man Godwin's Law aren't you? But yeah, Europe, don't think we don't know that your Human Rights court is really a gas chamber, We're on to you.

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