symyjym
Banned
Are you talking about the same love that God gives us when he casts us into hell for not believing in him. Or the same love God when casts ill and deformed children to be born into this world to suffer etc etc etc?
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Scientology
- Thread starter StonehamPark
- Start date
Are you talking about the same love that God gives us when he casts us into hell for not believing in him. Or the same love God when casts ill and deformed children to be born into this world to suffer etc etc etc?
thejackal
Throbbing Member
F*cking narcissism, pure and simple.
symyjym
Banned
Unless you can fly I would disagree with you.
A loving God wouldn't do that, obviously.
The Sock of Poskett
The best is yet to come (spoiler alert)
- Jun 12, 2009
- 2,802
That's really not the full picture though, if you dig more deeply into what he actually said and did.
He said he was God. He said he'd be killed and come back to life. That's what Christians believe he did.
As CS Lewis has argued, he's either mad (ie deluded), bad (ie deliberately manipulating and evil, looking to usurp God) or actually who he says he is.
There are some good short videos in the Christianity Explored series that look into this. Here's one:
Solid at the back
Well-known member
All religion is bollocks, you are very gullable people if you believe in any type of this shit
Megazone
On his last warning
What do you mean by narcissism?
If anything, Scientology targets empaths. Narcissstic people wouldn´t get sucked into it. They´re too self absorbed to be able to give themselves up for some weird belief. Scientology is probably run by a bunch of covert narcissists pretending to be some sort of angel being. These sort of people exist in the charity sector too.
symyjym
Banned
Jesus wanted to abandon the vengeful laws of the Jews. The core of his teaching was a "new commandment" to love one another, to love your neighbor as yourself, to forgive your enemies, etc.
His message is compatible with atheism. He basically died a horrible death for trying to change things and we don’t need God to understand the story better. He was also not considered full blooded Jew and was part of their underclass.
The Didache is the earliest teachings of Jesus, written within his family’s lifetime, unadulterated and not canonised. http://www.thedidache.com It all makes rational sense what he was trying to teach.
The historical Jesus is far more interesting than the supernatural Jesus.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=narcissism
"excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance"
It's great that Tom knows he's the only one that can help.....
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Is the correct answer, IMHO
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Jesus, you can see why they disabled comments on that video.
Why do so many idiots believe that this guy, whose very existence cannot be definitively proved, died and came back to life 3 days later? I'm a rational person and I believe there are many things that we as human beings don't know or comprehend but it doesn't make me believe in God. I'd rather have faith in myself and other people, rather than some imaginary bullshit.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
I'm afraid that's simply not true. If you can point me in the direction of any reference to Jesus Christ the person when he was still alive, I would be very happy to review it. Some discussions on the subject:
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/01/149462376/did-jesus-exist-a-historian-makes-his-case
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/...bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
Remember, of course, that 'Christ' is a title, not a name. There are references to a 'Christ' after his supposed death, but they may or may not refer to any number of people.
To say that no scholars seriously doubt that this guy ever existed is tenuous in the extreme.
symyjym
Banned
Your 3rd link ends with the following statement:
"There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie."
thejackal
Throbbing Member
That, to me, is no proof at all.
Millions of idiots are happy to die for their religions now. Is that proof that Jesus existed? I really don't think so!
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symyjym
Banned
You were not talking about whether God is real or not. You were saying that there is no proof that Jesus even existed historically.
That quote from your link "There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus.................." disagrees with you and gives just one example.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
I meant Jesus, and corrected my post 10 minutes before you replied to it.
That that quote sites the fact that people were willing to die for a religious/spiritual cause as "perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist" shows how little evidence there actually is. That's opinion, not evidence.
symyjym
Banned
You are not looking at this right. These were people of the time when everyone believed in God, and Jesus was a wise friend who they believed had a connection with God.
All or most of his apostles died a horrible death for basically teaching what Jesus taught, and 12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end.
Anyway it was your link that summarised the opposite of what you tried to prove. If you didn’t read the bit at the end it shows that you are just cherry picking on a scan read and not really researching the subject.
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thejackal
Throbbing Member
Actually, no. You're wrong on more than 1 point here.
Firstly, only the Abrahamic traditions were monotheistic. Most of the word's inhabitants were still followers of 'Gods', not just one.
Secondly, your assertion that "12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end" is, again, your opinion, and cannot be taken as any proof that Jesus lived. That's if you believe the account of their deaths in the first place.
And lastly, I posted those links as discussions on the subject, not as proof that Jesus didn't ever exist. I don't have proof that he didn't exist, any more than you have proof that he did!
symyjym
Banned
A God or God's doesn't really matter, you understood my point.
There is plently of evidence to say that he probably existed, to the point there is no point in denying it.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Yeah I take your point there. It's also true that on the balance of probability, he may have existed.
That said, I can see more than just 1 'point in denying it': 1 point for every religious nut that is certain that he did!
In the absence of any real proof, I believe it's my moral duty to be skeptical of claims that he definitely existed.