400k NHS workers on strike...

JCL - the new kid in town · Oct 14, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
Which is currently running at 1.2%. It would seem fair to me that all public sector employees have their pay pegged to an index linked increase but the challenge there is how to pay for it ?

Well i was talking about RPI rather than CPI as that is linked to mortgage payments, council tax bills etc that are big parts of where your salary goes each month and the RPI is around 2.5%. Plus CPI is 1.2% for sept but thats not a whole year so for 2014 it'll probably be nearer to 2%. But yes you do need to find somehow to pay for it. As Lord B said before if they could reduce the requirement for agency staff/OT pay then there would be more available. They also need to budget better, there is too much tendency to negatively budget, ie look how much you spent last year and add a bit to it rather than working out how much you need

easynow · Oct 14, 2014

Frampler said:
The Government have behaved appallingly by rejecting the recommendations of the independent pay review body, and treating progression pay and pay rise as one and the same. They are not - progression pay reflects the advance in skills and competences, whereas pay rises reflect the increase in the cost of living.

So to those NHS staff who have increased their skills (often by undertaking training outside of working hours) the Government is saying "since your pay has gone up, it won't need any adjustment to reflect the increase in the cost of living". When you consider that house prices in the South East have gone up by almost 12% in a year, and NHS workers had already been subject to pay freezes for most of this Parliament, the latest strike seems more than justified. We're going to end up with all the skilled NHS staff - who this country has invested significant sums to train - emigrating to other countries where they are treated with the level of respect and remuneration they deserve.

Where?

Surf's Up · Oct 14, 2014

The £300m the Govt say the 1% rise will cost is a drop in the ocean in the overall scheme of things and their claim that nurses would have to be laid off in order to pay for it is a crude and absurdly simplistic attempt to threaten the staff into submission. It is also misleading in the extreme to mix up the incremental progression pay (which admittedly could do with a re-think) which is a contractual entitlement and the annual inflation award which is based (in every other recent year) on the recommendation of the Pay Review Body. I assume the government will also be refusing to accept the recommendations of the Drs and Dentists Pay Review a Body too!

Tubby Mondays · Oct 14, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
Of course they have, it's what they do to public sector workers. Utterly disgusting, nasty and evil but I expect little else from the Tory party.

The tax cuts with which they will be intending to fight the election have to be paid for some how.

aolstudios · Oct 14, 2014

Nibble said:
Before you even count Google, Starbuck and Amazon the amount of outstanding tax owed to us is £51 Billion pounds per annum. There's your solution right there.

This with big illuminated knobs on...

aolstudios · Oct 14, 2014

gibseagull said:
The £300m the Govt say the 1% rise will cost is a drop in the ocean in the overall scheme of things and their claim that nurses would have to be laid off in order to pay for it is a crude and absurdly simplistic attempt to threaten the staff into submission. It is also misleading in the extreme to mix up the incremental progression pay (which admittedly could do with a re-think) which is a contractual entitlement and the annual inflation award which is based (in every other recent year) on the recommendation of the Pay Review Body. I assume the government will also be refusing to accept the recommendations of the Drs and Dentists Pay Review a Body too!

How many MP's can we lay off to pay for their pay rise?

Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews · Oct 14, 2014

father_and_son said:
Most professional organisations require an annual subscription to their controlling body, nothing unusual there.

By "covered" I'm assuming that you mean insured. Protection against the crippling financial impact of lawsuit from a disgruntled parent or relative, I'd expect this to be mandatory for anyone in the medical profession (as it is in various other occupations).

Not saying Mrs S shouldn't get enough in her paypacket to cover these, but both are perfectly reasonable expenses to expect someone in such a job to be paying.

Are you the same person that said those that manufacture their own 3rd kit as opposed to buying it from the club shop will be responsible for the club failing to make any major signings?

rogersix · Oct 14, 2014

Norman Baker suck my lozenge said:
Easy answer,stop foreign aid.

its usually not aid but a bribe to buy our shit; i.e. india/BaE

rogersix · Oct 14, 2014

Kevlar said:
well that is what faith is all about
proof is not needed!
why not privatize the army?
mercenary armies competing for franchises
bound to be better and cheaper than public armies

not sure if you are serious or not but that is very interesting.
keep hardcore special forces then hire guns when a large number of people ask to be killed

JCL - the new kid in town · Oct 14, 2014

rogersix said:
not sure if you are serious or not but that is very interesting.
keep hardcore special forces then hire guns

trouble with mercenaries, is they are just that. Imagine they are fighting for you and the other side say hey we'll pay you more and suddenly your army is depleted and the other side are boosted.

rogersix said:
when a large number of people ask to be killed

Who are these people asking to be killed?

rogersix · Oct 14, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
Which is currently running at 1.2%. It would seem fair to me that all public sector employees have their pay pegged to an index linked increase but the challenge there is how to pay for it ?

tax amazon and all the other thieving blighters

rogersix · Oct 14, 2014

JCL - the new kid in town said:
trouble with mercenaries, is they are just that. Imagine they are fighting for you and the other side say hey we'll pay you more and suddenly your army is depleted and the other side are boosted.

Who are these people asking to be killed?

point 1 ive not really thought that through have i? its never occurred to me before
point 2 i never know until tony bliar tells me

Skylar · Oct 14, 2014

First thing the NHS need to do is buy new phones.

Marshy · Oct 14, 2014

I work in the NHS, and have been in my current role for 14 years.

After 5 years or so i reached the top of my pay band,through hard work I may add, the incremental rises in the band are just not handed out and given, they have to be earned.

In the last 9 years after reaching the top of my grade, after job re-evaluations, pay freezing etc my salary has increased by 1,000 pound ......

The NHS pension that everyone always sights as... ah well at least you have that, is now no where near what it used to be.

Luckily I love what i do and am 10 mins from home, some are not so lucky.

father_and_son · Oct 14, 2014

Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews said:
Are you the same person that said those that manufacture their own 3rd kit as opposed to buying it from the club shop will be responsible for the club failing to make any major signings?

Nope.

JCL - the new kid in town · Oct 14, 2014

rogersix said:
point 1 ive not really thought that through have i? its never occurred to me before
point 2 i never know until tony bliar tells me

to be fair i do like the idea and think it could work for a wealthy nation like ours, plus any mercenaries that flip-flopped to the highest bidder would likely be putting themselves out of work as you do need a element of trust that a contract would be fulfilled.

rogersix · Oct 14, 2014

JCL - the new kid in town said:
to be fair i do like the idea and think it could work for a wealthy nation like ours, plus any mercenaries that flip-flopped to the highest bidder would likely be putting themselves out of work as you do need a element of trust that a contract would be fulfilled.

what with the cuts and all, someone will out bid us

jackanada · Oct 14, 2014

Mustafa said:
What a terrifying thought!

One thing we have learned through privatisation is that ultimately regular people get screwed over. It's bad enough our utilities and transport being owned by the rich global elites, ripping us all off by selling our own services back to us for as much profit as possible - but if they also owned the military, then we would really live in a dystopian corporatocracy!

Errr.... They do own the military. There has been a massive growth in PMCs (private military companies) since Iraq part 2. They protect resources that we are stealing without the hindrance of rules of engagement, and also asked us to pretend we don't have that many troops there.
There is a highly entertaining offshoot from this in Afghanistan where the PMCs assigned to protect goods traveling by road realised it was safer and more cost effective to bribe warlords to allow them safe passage. Given the nature of asymmetric warfare this meant the allies were effectively financing the entire enemy operation.

Paul Reids Sock · Oct 14, 2014

JCL - the new kid in town said:
You can now pay the PIN monthly and you may even be able to salary sacrifice it (not sure about that entirely though). The £200 to be "covered", do you mean joining a union? That is optional, i know people who don't have it

She's looked into it and think she can pay £16 a month so not horrendous just frustrating.

The forms for the PIN have stated that as of August this year the £200 to be in a union and covered by them is mandatory.

I can understand the charges and logic but it's a bit of a kick in the teeth for someone that is ultimately there to save lives.

mooey · Oct 14, 2014

I work for the NHS and I think privatisation is the best thing they can do.The amount of money that is wasted is unbelievable contracters take the piss all the time the money wasted on agency workers and most the staff use the sick pay as extra holiday people all round the world come here just to get free treatment.No business would survive being ran like this and at the end of the day that is what the NHS is.

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