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Is the BPL the best league in the world



C

Cheeky Monkey

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
23,088
The Premier League is top if the pile when it comes to glamour clubs - it's no wonder the world tunes in each week to watch the likes of Hull, Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Sunderland, Southampton, Palace, Burnley or Leicester. I know I can hardly contain myself when MOTD comes on. Positively mouthwatering.
 






J

jamie the seagull

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2011
2,803
No....it just makes the most money.

Personally I enjoy the Bundesliga more than the Premiership...
La Liga is the most skillful.
 


Trigger

Trigger

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2003
40,457
Brighton
Some of the best quality football and without doubt the most fan friendly and the best value for money is the Bundesliga, puts our 'top division' to shame.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,258
Surrey
The Premier league is decent enough, and probably the best by some yardsticks.

In Spain, Barca and Real have dominated for decades and decades in a way that simply hasn't happened here. Sure Liverpool and Man Utd have both enjoyed prolonged dynasties, but at the same time they did have direct competition. In Spain, it has nearly ALWAYS been Barca or Real, with fleeting challenges from Athletico, Bilbao and Valencia. Only 5 times have the title not been won by those 5 clubs since it's inception in 1930. So as much as people talk about the disparity in income in this country, it's 100 times worse in Spain.

Italy is like England - plenty of big clubs and a much more even distribution of scudettos than Spain has ever seen. At the moment, domestic football in Italy appears a poor relation compared to Spain and England (a bit like England in the 80s), but class will tell in the end.

Germany - at the top end, Bayern Munich run away with it most years. One mega-rich club and 2 pretenders (Schalke/Dortmund) where we have three (Chelsea/Man City/Utd) and more who flirt with competing (Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool). But the rest of the top league is in rude health - big, full, modern stadiums, priced with the punter in mind.

So the very best football right now is probably found in Spain's top 5, the best top 8 or 9 is probably in England, and the best league-wide standard and football-fan experience is probably found in Germany. Overall, I reckon Germany has it more right than anyone else.
 




L

leigull

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,810
Superphil said:
There was 17 points between 3rd & 4th in La Liga last season, there was 17 points between 3rd and 7th in the Premier League. The chasm in La Liga is greater than in England, I think the "anyone can beat anyone" statement in the EPL stands up.
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Did you see the Liga scores at the weekend? Eibar, town of 28k population, first season ever in the top flight, stadium size equivalent of Withdean - beat Real Sociedad. That's about the same as Fleetwood Town getting to the Premier League and then beating say Tottenham on the opening day.

As for quality further down the league - Sevilla won the Europa League last year. Betis (who got relegated) got as far as the best placed English team (Spurs), Valencia made the semi final. I think there was some stat or something that the only clubs to knock out Spanish sides in Europe last year, were other Spanish teams. The league is way beyond the standard of the Premier League. Backed up by the rather diminishing number of world class players left in England.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,258
Surrey
leigull said:
Did you see the Liga scores at the weekend? Eibar, town of 28k population, first season ever in the top flight, stadium size equivalent of Withdean - beat Real Sociedad. That's about the same as Fleetwood Town getting to the Premier League and then beating say Tottenham on the opening day.

As for quality further down the league - Sevilla won the Europa League last year. Betis (who got relegated) got as far as the best placed English team (Spurs), Valencia made the semi final. I think there was some stat or something that the only clubs to knock out Spanish sides in Europe last year, were other Spanish teams. The league is way beyond the standard of the Premier League. Backed up by the rather diminishing number of world class players left in England.
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This bit is rubbish. The number of world class players in a league has no relevance on it's overall quality FFS. How many world class players are at Eibar then? How many world class players play in Spain outside Real and Barca? One or two at most I'd say. Atletico have had to sell all their star players and they've just won the league and were runners up in the Champions League. Yeah, a great league. :rolleyes:

And anyone can extrapolate ONE result over a whole season to prove a point. Eibar FFS. Let's see where they are at Christmas. Wimbledon used to play in our top division on gates of 5,000. Wigan were tiny before they had a stadium built for them, Reading not much bigger.

And how many years ago was it when Fulham and Middlesbrough made it to the Europa cup final? See, we've done it too.
 


M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,297
It is a monster, out of control. A huge gaping black hole swallowing up vast revenue and spitting out crumbs to those less fortunate. It shows no duty of care to the historic and essential pyramid below it. It was set up to make the elite stronger and wealthier and widen the divide in football.
It fails to run along sound business lines. Most of its member clubs are technically insolvent and paying their employees the vast proportion of their income. Propped up by wealthy benefactors, it is a gravy train for ordinary footballers to earn a Kings ransom. The quality is questionable although hyped to the Gods by those that are employed in it or as a result of it.
Broadcasters are to blame for throwing such ridiculous sums at a product not worthy of such riches and helping to create a market where immature and unproven young men are millionaires before they are out of their teens. They are doing our game a grave disservice. They are overvaluing the product on offer and also removing hunger and desire from young professionals. How many results based industries can you name when the employees are paid huge sums of money irrespective of results? How many industries allow their employees to hold employers to ransom and effectively withhold their labour?
How many industries allow the employees to call all the shots?
Frankly, I don't care whether or not its the best league in the world. Is it helping the structure of our game?. Is it allowing the vast wealth generated to safeguard the future of the game? Does it help young home-grown talent to flourish and benefit the national side?
The Premier League isn't part of the real world. Its a fantasy, a fairy tale of riches beyond imagination and now basically, uncontrollable. All costs keep spiralling upwards whilst the rest of us cope with budgetting and cost-cutting. Economic history suggests that it isn't sustainable but its been roaring away for over 20 years now and shows no sign of slowing down. Good luck to those reaping the rewards now. Future generations may not be so fortunate.
 




L

leigull

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,810
Simster said:
This bit is rubbish. The number of world class players in a league has no relevance on it's overall quality FFS. How many world class players are at Eibar then? How many world class players play in Spain outside Real and Barca? One or two at most I'd say. Atletico have had to sell all their star players and they've just won the league and were runners up in the Champions League. Yeah, a great league. :rolleyes:

And anyone can extrapolate ONE result over a whole season to prove a point. Eibar FFS. Let's see where they are at Christmas. Wimbledon used to play in our top division on gates of 5,000. Wigan were tiny before they had a stadium built for them, Reading not much bigger.

And how many years ago was it when Fulham and Middlesbrough made it to the Europa cup final? See, we've done it too.
Click to expand...

Eibar was just used as an example that 'anyone can beat anyone' doesn't just apply to England as is being claimed, that there are small clubs that have (minor) successes in other leagues too.

Re the Middlesbrough Fulham point, fair enough, but that's going back a bit. Asking the question NOW of what the best (again interpreting this as quality) league is, and La Liga is ahead of the Premier League.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,831
The Fatherland
Superphil said:
The German league is much lauded but in the end is a one horse race.
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In the past 10 years Bayern, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund have all won the Bundesliga. In the same period only Chelsea, Man U and Man City have won the British version. And there has been a heap of different teams finishing in the top 4. Even Hertha managed this 4 years ago. By your own admission the EPL is dominated by the same teams. I'm not sure how you can say the spread of quality is better in the EPL, the facts simply dont stack up.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,258
Surrey
leigull said:
Eibar was just used as an example that 'anyone can beat anyone' doesn't just apply to England as is being claimed, that there are small clubs that have (minor) successes in other leagues too.
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But you've cherry picked a result. The "anyone can beat anyone" mantra is lazy, whichever league it is being referred to. Of course they can. I'm sure Exeter could beat Chelsea on their day, I'm also sure they'd finish bottom if they were in the top division. We use a league table to determine this, and you'll find the Spanish league is considerably more lopsided than the English equivalent. And at the top end, it is ALWAYS the same teams in the top 2 or 3. At least in England, that changes subtly year on year.

leigull said:
Re the Middlesbrough Fulham point, fair enough, but that's going back a bit. Asking the question NOW of what the best (again interpreting this as quality) league is, and La Liga is ahead of the Premier League.
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It's not going back that far at all.

And whilst Spanish teams have bossed the Europa league for a decade, you have to remember that this is partly down to money. In England, where TV money is negotiated on a league wide basis, the emphasis is on staying in the top flight. Premier league teams don't care about the Europa league in anything like the same way, and so put out severely weakened teams until the business end, if they're still in it, and only then if top flight status is all but secured. By contrast, the teams in the Spanish league all negotiate their own rights, and the big two hoover up HALF of all TV money in Spain. It is absurd, but it does mean that the Europa league is an important source of revenue for the smaller clubs.

A better stick to beat the Premier League with is the number of domestic players it employs. I bet Leicester/Southampton/Stoke etc all import far more foreign talent than their Spanish equivalents.
 




Gregory2Smith1

Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch
Herr Tubthumper said:
In the past 10 years Bayern, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund have all won the Bundesliga. In the same period only Chelsea, Man U and Man City have won the British version. And there has been a heap of different teams finishing in the top 4. Even Hertha managed this 4 years ago. By your own admission the EPL is dominated by the same teams. I'm not sure how you can say the spread of quality is better in the EPL, the facts simply dont stack up.
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in the last 16 seasons in the bundesliga,bayern munich have won it 10 times and dortmund 3 times
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,831
The Fatherland
Germans do it better, Miss Kitten said so.
 






Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,831
The Fatherland
Gregory2 said:
in the last 16 seasons in the bundesliga,bayern munich have won it 10 times and dortmund 3 times
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My point still stacks up as if you want to go back 16 years you can then add Werder Bremen to my list. The EPL can only add Arsenal. Go back one more year and Kaiserslautern won it. The EPL had Arsenal...again.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,258
Surrey
Herr Tubthumper said:
In the past 10 years Bayern, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund have all won the Bundesliga. In the same period only Chelsea, Man U and Man City have won the British version. And there has been a heap of different teams finishing in the top 4. Even Hertha managed this 4 years ago. By your own admission the EPL is dominated by the same teams. I'm not sure how you can say the spread of quality is better in the EPL, the facts simply dont stack up.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. You want fact? Here are facts:

Best prices to win the league:

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/germany/bundesliga

Bayern Munich 1/8
Dortmund 8/1
Leverkusen 25/1

Chelsea 23/17
Man City 2/1
Arsenal 8/1
Man Utd 14/1
Liverpool 16/1
 


Bean

Bean

Registered User
Feb 13, 2010
3,557
Hove
father_and_son said:
Not even close!

A league with a small elite group who win everything, a couple of wannabe pretenders and half a league of also-rans just there to fill out the field.

Virtually all, but the elites, are losing money hand over fist despite the huge TV income.

The elite clubs buying up the best English youth prospects and virtually paying them not to play and instead filling their squads with foreign, superstar, prima donnas.

Followed by a bunch of armchair fans who have never set foot inside "their" club's home city, never mind their own stadium.



"Best League in the World" - f*ck off!
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Then what is the best league in the world? All the other leagues are exactly the same but to a greater extent. There are five title condenders this year in the Premier League. Compare that to other leagues and there is much more dominance e.g. Germany (Bayern and Dortmund), Spain (Barca, Real, Athletico) etc
 


beefypigeon

beefypigeon

Well-known member
Aug 14, 2008
960
Despite Sevilla and Valencia doing well in europe also, they're still so far behind the big three teams, it doesn't make for the best and most competitive league in my opinion.

I may be wrong, but I think the gap between the best and worst teams in the premier league is less than it is in other leagues.
 




Gregory2Smith1

Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch
historically,I think 5 different english clubs have won the European Cup,not even the Spanish,Italian or German leagues can claim this
 


Gregory2Smith1

Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch


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