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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
We're currently in a process of doing all four of the things I mentioned. .
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We have free speech ,freedom of expression and a free press we don’t have a state controlled propaganda machine dishing out state sanctioned populist messages.
Wanting to control borders is not the blaming of foreigners, but oh don’t you love pushing that message and it seems rather odd not being allowed to blame the EU for the failings of itself.
Asserting the desire to have more national sovereignty returned to the democratic process is not a failing either and has no equivalence to a system where all sovereignty rests with a single fuhrer and opposing political parties and organisations are restricted, not tolerated and even abolished
And referendums are not “Nazi” and even if they were (in a bizarre alternate universe) only one side here is seeking to having another one.
All in all, a spectacular fail. There is no similarity to Nazi Germany in what you have mentioned.
 






D

daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Two Professors said:
You are an utter idiot.If better people than you find accused Germans innocent at the Nuremburg Tribunals,people who had fought against the Germans for all those terrible years,then who the hell do you think you are?Do you think people guilty of war-crimes were let off by some trendy judge,because they'd had a bad day?They were shot or hung or killed themselves,you blind bigot.Do one,yourself.
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In order to promote your ridiculous claim that the first Waffen SS atrocity was committed by a Muslim unit in 1944, you are prepared to act as an apologist for not one, but two massacres committed by the SS against British troops in 1940 by units of Totenkopf at Le Paradis, and Leibstandarte at Wournhoudt
It doesnt matter WHO ****ING ORDERED IT. They did it. You are a scumbag of the highest order.
 


A

abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,034
There is much mud being thrown at the Gov right now because of the perceived 'chaos' in the negotiations.

If you voted remain then surely this is what you expected and is perhaps mildly better than the Armageddon predicted. However, you must be quietly satisfied that the EU are playing hardball and the both the Gov and the country are split on how to manage the 'chaos' resulting from the decision to leave. Your point is proved.

If you voted leave then the attitude of the EU, the splits caused by remoaners or soft brexiteers just goes to prove that we need to leave the EU asap and 'take back control'. The chaos isn't our fault but something we have to go through to get our independence back. Your point is proved.

For those who just want to get on with their lives, run their businesses or do their jobs, pay their mortgages and look after their families, it is the constant bickering and point scoring that is causing the chaos and both sides should grow up, drop personal agendas and ambitions and work together simply to get the best outcome for the country and the people in it. Because neither side
is doing this we are in 'chaos'. Their point is proved.

Most people would broadly fit into one of the these groups and will remain entrenched there. What chance does any Gov (regardless of their colour) have of avoiding 'chaos' or finding a way out of it?

We are all doomed I say, doomed!
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Baldseagull said:
I was not referring to the referendum itself, but substitute Jew or Judaism for muslim or Islam in some of the media and online content around today. The sort of imagery used by Farage in the leave campaign, the stirring up of national pride and sowing the seeds of fear of the other to get the result, were more what I had in mind.
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Bit rich for Federalists and Europhiles complaining about the rise of intolerance/prejudice/the far right (see also far left) considering the EU's political and economic agenda are some of their biggest recruiters.

Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Denmark, in fact, you could pick virtually any other EU member state and find a far right party that has more support than there equivilant would get in the UK. Plus of course our Membership of the EU means they have a say in our affairs.
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,941
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
Bit rich for Federalists and Europhiles complaining about the rise of intolerance/prejudice/the far right (see also far left) considering the EU's political and economic agenda are some of their biggest recruiters.

Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Denmark, in fact, you could pick virtually any other EU member state and find a far right party that has more support than there equivilant would get in the UK. Plus of course our Membership of the EU means they have a say in our affairs.
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You could blame UK and French Government for the rise of the far right in Germany. It does not excuse the reaction.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Baldseagull said:
You could blame UK and French Government for the rise of the far right in Germany. It does not excuse the reaction.
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Extremism left or right should be challenged and opposed. At some point, it would be nice if you would acknowledge your arguments and worldview are part of the problem though.
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I'd just like to say to all regulars on The NSC Brexit thread, (and you know who you are) even the red trouser wearing public school pervert, numpty ones - the Izquierdo goal today and the general second half performance and end result, coupled with the quite copious amounts of Guinness, Harvey's consumed and the rather disappointing Australian Cabernet Sauvignon I'm drinking now, but finished meaning I'm about to go on Staropramen and go on it big time - means I I ****ing love you all. :kiss:

(The Conservative and Unionist Party are ****s and Amber Rudd still needs eradicating though :thumbsup:)
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
We're currently in a process of doing all four of the things I mentioned. And I'm not saying that UKIP is the Nazi party.
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But the username [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] stated "For some bizarre reason, I quite like you" at me.

I know you converse with him but has he ever given you such an accolade?
 










nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,558
Gods country fortnightly
Hampster Gull said:
The cough cough dynamic trio. Ffs. This party is a complete and utter farce. Corbyn,with his mates like Gerry, no better. Bring on Chairman Cable
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Could still play a part in a future Lib / Lab coalition

The Tories are still in a state of denial this morning, ignoring the Ireland issue with regard to the customs union and kidding themselves and the public free movement will end of 29/3/19. Is anyone really buying this?
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,287
nicko31 said:
Could still play a part in a future Lib / Lab coalition

The Tories are still in a state of denial this morning, ignoring the Ireland issue with regard to the customs union and kidding themselves and the public free movement will end of 29/3/19. Is anyone really buying this?
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there is no practical reason why freedom of movement cannot end on 29/3/19. of course, you need to understand what it means first, which is right travel to the UK and have all the same rights as a UK citizen, which due to our very relaxed attitude to citizenship comes down to right to work and is administered by employers. customs union is more complex only because of the implementation, doable if people pull their finger out. which also applies to Ireland, post EU unilateral treaty and technical solutions exist. if the EU want to push us off the cliff edge so be it, if everyone wants to be sensible we can all gain something.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,465
The Fatherland
beorhthelm said:
if the EU want to push us off the cliff edge so be it
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You decided to leave. So please don’t blame others if it doesn’t work out.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,287
Herr Tubthumper said:
You decided to leave. So please don’t blame others if it doesn’t work out.
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im not, i accept the possible future. just observation that the party most likely to block an agreement currently is the EU. they are playing game theory in an attempt to force abandonment. we could have a fluffy future of cooperation and collaboration, free trade and licenced movement of people and reciprocal recognition of rights, and their court stays the other side of the channel. and with us out of the way they can get on with all that federal integration they want to do. who wouldnt want that?
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,465
The Fatherland
beorhthelm said:
im not, i accept the possible future. just observation that the party most likely to block an agreement currently is the EU. they are playing game theory in an attempt to force abandonment. we could have a fluffy future of cooperation and collaboration, free trade and licenced movement of people and reciprocal recognition of rights, and their court stays the other side of the channel. and with us out of the way they can get on with all that federal integration they want to do. who wouldnt want that?
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As I said. The UK decided to leave. What, if anything, the EU decide to do, is up to them. You can’t pull out of a partnership then start bleating about it.
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,941
Crawley
beorhthelm said:
im not, i accept the possible future. just observation that the party most likely to block an agreement currently is the EU. they are playing game theory in an attempt to force abandonment. we could have a fluffy future of cooperation and collaboration, free trade and licenced movement of people and reciprocal recognition of rights, and their court stays the other side of the channel. and with us out of the way they can get on with all that federal integration they want to do. who wouldnt want that?
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It seems to me that there are quite a few Tories prepared to bend over backwards to accommodate a great deal with the US, but don't want to make any concession to help maintain a better one with the EU.
We can't say we don't want to be in the club and then blame them when they say we can't use the clubhouse.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
pastafarian said:
We have free speech ,freedom of expression and a free press we don’t have a state controlled propaganda machine dishing out state sanctioned populist messages.
Wanting to control borders is not the blaming of foreigners, but oh don’t you love pushing that message and it seems rather odd not being allowed to blame the EU for the failings of itself.
Asserting the desire to have more national sovereignty returned to the democratic process is not a failing either and has no equivalence to a system where all sovereignty rests with a single fuhrer and opposing political parties and organisations are restricted, not tolerated and even abolished
And referendums are not “Nazi” and even if they were (in a bizarre alternate universe) only one side here is seeking to having another one.
All in all, a spectacular fail. There is no similarity to Nazi Germany in what you have mentioned.
Click to expand...

I was expecting this. I've always been interested in how mass persuasion techniques can be applied in order to shift public reactions in a certain direction. The obvious example is what happened in Germany from 1918. That was malign. Another example was the UK from, say, 2015 on. That was in a different and obviously more benign league. But while the story was different, the chapter headings occasionally have things in common. One-question referendums, an inclination to cite foreigners, a distrust of experts, the snappy slogans of populism and even, in the past few days, the blaming of shadowy elites for warping the truth. Note that there are no criticisms of Brexit in that last sentence but, as I say, I expected you to pretend that I was comparing Boris's Britain to Hitler's Germany. So many of the extremely-cross wing of the Brexit movement seem to love donning the mantel of victimhood. ("We're all thick racists!") It's odd, given that they are staring victory in the face.

PS If you're interested in the subject, the best read I've come across lately is Geert Mak's 'In Europe', chapter 16.
 


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