Homophobic Leicester fans

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
How many times? It's not the odd "we can see you..." that's really the problem here, juvenile and tedious though it is: it's people screaming "******s", singing about AIDS and "taking it up the arse" that have caused the issue at the weekend.

If you walked down the street snarling and calling people "******s" you'd rightly expect to be in trouble for it. Come to think of it, if you went up to a work colleague and sniggered "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" at him over the photocopier, you'd probably find yourself having a chat with HR before long. What is it about being in a football stadium that makes some people think they have a free pass to act like a total arse?

hows many times what ....how many times do you have to tell me your point....?? like i said , this issue is long dead in Australia and we are supposed to be years behind you lot .......if you think homophobia is one of England's biggest problems then i readily insert my head up my own bottom.

cunning fergus · Aug 21, 2017

SeagullCrow said:
I think that you misunderstood the point that I was making. I don't disagree that some offences are far more serious than others, and rightfully deserve to have more resources invested in them by the authorities. My point is simply that many of the offences that you allude to were ignored by the authorities until social movements and pressure groups took up the cause in the 1970s and 1980s, and forced the authorities to take them seriously.

Equally the issue of homophobia within football will continue to be ignored as long as nobody is applying pressure on the FA, the football clubs and the police to take the issue seriously. We'll only start to see things change one people realise that such behaviour has consequences, and that these bodies are willing to take action against them. Just because such 'hate crime' and 'hate incidents' aren't as serious as terrorism, rape or murder doesn't mean that the police or the authorities should turn a blind eye to them either.

I think we are still landing at the same point, there is a hierarchy of crime, it should (in my view) be based on the consequences of the victims.

Police resources should be managed against that hierarchy, and with no doubt the political elements have a part to play there too.

By all means agitate to get it up the political agenda, but don't be surprised if in today's environment with all the threats the public faces that police resources are directed against the top risks.

That said I did read at the weekend how the Met has expanded the Grenfell Tower investigation to the extent that long standing specialist teams (like fine art and antique crime) have been closed down and other teams reduced in number (corporate fraud I think). So there is the quid pro quo in action now.

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
English culture based on verbal abuse? You live in a different world to me.

100% obviously ....but where i live there is no homophobia at sporting events and when we get a big group of lads together on the lash the abuse can be quite brutal and hilarious all at once.....having lived in 5 different countries with expats i can say that is a global phenomenon amongst Brits......anyway , i give up now.

cunning fergus · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
I stand corrected I knew Leicester had a significant Hindu population so I googled it. Out of date info, I guess

All good. Just be careful going down steps with that orthopaedic shoe.......that's my advice.

AmexRuislip · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
How many times? It's not the odd "we can see you..." that's really the problem here, juvenile and tedious though it is: it's people screaming "******s", singing about AIDS and "taking it up the arse" that have caused the issue at the weekend.

If you walked down the street snarling and calling people "******s" you'd rightly expect to be in trouble for it. Come to think of it, if you went up to a work colleague and sniggered "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" at him over the photocopier, you'd probably find yourself having a chat with HR before long. What is it about being in a football stadium that makes some people think they have a free pass to act like a total arse?

I'm guessing it's the dormant neanderthal gene that surfaces, because certain cretins, think it's the right thing to do.
Not sure about the police force, but it's probably the same in the armed forces.
The idea of people joining up, who are gay, transgender or just different is accepted, and that any sort of discrimination won't be tolerated.

fosters headband · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
I can answer that. It's not a legal power you're being searched under, but a condition of entry to a private premises. It is consent-based only. If you refuse to be searched, they cannot lawfully insist on carrying one out, nor use any force on you for that purpose*. They can, however, refuse you entry to the ground as a result of your unwillingness. I'd suggest they're unlikely to agree to carry out a search in private unless there were real extenuating circumstances, because it's going to cause delays for everyone else waiting to get in. Therefore it's a case of agreeing to them patting you down and checking your bags, or no football for you that day.

The police do have various powers to search you, but they don't carry out searches for the purposes of gaining entry to football grounds unless there are very unusual conditions in place. They may search you under, say, the Police & Criminal Evidence Act, the Misuse of Drugs Act and so on, if they have reasonable grounds for suspecting you may be in possession of naughty items, they may lawfully detain you for a search, and use force to carry out the search if reasonably necessary. But they don't do that specifically for people trying to get into football stadiums. That's what the clubs pay stewards for.

Does anyone else think it a little strange that we the public are encouraged not to let anyone in your home even if wearing a yellow jacket without seeing photographic I.D, but we can be refused entry by someone not wearing any photographic ID or security badges, wearing a yellow jacket with a number on it. if we refuse to be body searched.,

Chickenlittle · Aug 21, 2017

sydney said:
100% obviously ....but where i live there is no homophobia at sporting events and when we get a big group of lads together on the lash the abuse can be quite brutal and hilarious all at once.....having lived in 5 different countries with expats i can say that is a global phenomenon amongst Brits......anyway , i give up now.

In Australia?...probably no xenophobia or sexism, either eh?
Having visited this country, and spoken with locals, many many times over the past 25yrs (I have family there)...I can only assume you are taking the p!ss

NooBHA · Aug 21, 2017

fosters headband said:
I have no doubt the technology at the Amex is probably amongst the best you can have and was also probably a big part in the Brighton Police action against the Barnsley fan, but how does that help the Brighton fans when being subjected to homophobic treatment NOT only by away fans but away stewards also?

You take retrospective action. You bring a Private Prosecution. All clubs have similar surveillance systems in the PL. It's a requirement by law. You subpoena their CCTV Footage and have it surveyed by experts and if the allegations can be corroborated you send it to the CPS for them to consider potential prosecution.

Uncle Spielberg · Aug 21, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Oh well, let's all give up then. Of course there will be setbacks, but this is one of the best threads we've had about homophobic abuse, where more people are realising it isn't banter, but criminal.
It will take time, but eventually it will be as abhorrent as racism.

That is the problem, people will give up as if you report things and sod all is done, there is only so much people can do and bar a few token evictions over the years NOTHING has happened and nothing will change. Just look at the facebook " banter " sites and all they ever do is spout homophobic abuse to all brighton fans, all day, everyday with over the top vile abuse. It is so ingrained and set in stone in the mindsets of opposition supporters now I cannot see it changing and as I said it does not help when a lot of brighton supporters themselves do not see it is a serious issue

mikeyjh · Aug 21, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
At the end of the day racist and homophobic chanting are illegal, not banter. It lands you in court.
Chanting about disasters is distasteful but not illegal.

It might not be illegal but the cynic in me does get a bit irritated about a little bit of hypocrisy knocking around - 'Pikeys' are mentioned in this thread, we've all heard 'We pay your benefits' (sung at Derby fans as well, rather ironically). Homophobic chanting is repugnant but so is chanting around perceived poverty, disasters etc etc.

Plenty of opposition fans were happy to chant the Philpotts in Derby which is but wrenchingly offensive but not illegal - Makes me think that the problem is not specifically homophobia, more a complete lack of respect by some.....

fosters headband · Aug 21, 2017

NooBHA said:
You take retrospective action. You bring a Private Prosecution. All clubs have similar surveillance systems in the PL. It's a requirement by law. You subpoena their CCTV Footage and have it surveyed by experts and if the allegations can be corroborated you send it to the CPS for them to consider potential prosecution.

And how much does this all cost and any solicitors involved?

edna krabappel · Aug 21, 2017

sydney said:
100% obviously ....but where i live there is no homophobia at sporting events and when we get a big group of lads together on the lash the abuse can be quite brutal and hilarious all at once.....having lived in 5 different countries with expats i can say that is a global phenomenon amongst Brits......anyway , i give up now.

Oh, well now this IS awkward

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ophobic-wanderers-fans-banner-in-sydney-derby

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...e/news-story/386fb372f178cd519e2b988cd708a29c

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...k/news-story/ffd12ad8e5f3ea79254c628d8d809167

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...658e90e43?sv=a34d1b4a49be8ba49a1733176c9f3d0]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...esex-marriage-plebiscite-20160822-gqy9cv.html

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...t/news-story/9a0676734044ebea1837d452a30e31f4

NooBHA · Aug 21, 2017

fosters headband said:
And how much does this all cost and any solicitors involved?

It costs a lot that's why I said in an earlier post you need to get the club on board or large organisations who are serious about doing something about it. Its not something that I personally feel strongly enough about, nor is it my place to go down this route although I do find Racism, Homophopia, Xenephobia, Anti Semitism etc all very distasteful within football.

However, some organisations do feel strongly enough about it to go that far and the Football League and Football League Clubs if they are really serious about it should be doing it. All I am doing here on this platform is presenting a ''Legal Option'' open to them.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
Oh, well now this IS awkward

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ophobic-wanderers-fans-banner-in-sydney-derby

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...e/news-story/386fb372f178cd519e2b988cd708a29c

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...k/news-story/ffd12ad8e5f3ea79254c628d8d809167

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...658e90e43?sv=a34d1b4a49be8ba49a1733176c9f3d0]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...esex-marriage-plebiscite-20160822-gqy9cv.html

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...t/news-story/9a0676734044ebea1837d452a30e31f4

Cut them a bit of slack tho, eh. They've only just recently been weaned off 'Abo' jokes.

Buzzer · Aug 21, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Cut them a bit of slack tho, eh. They've only just recently been weaned off 'Abo' jokes.

The "no homophobia problem in Australian sport" comment reminds me of this quote from Ulysses: "Ireland, they say, has the honour of being the only country which never persecuted the Jews. Do you know that? No. And do you know why?...Because she never let them in"

Pretty pink fairy · Aug 21, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
That is the problem, people will give up as if you report things and sod all is done, there is only so much people can do and bar a few token evictions over the years NOTHING has happened and nothing will change. Just look at the facebook " banter " sites and all they ever do is spout homophobic abuse to all brighton fans, all day, everyday with over the top vile abuse. It is so ingrained and set in stone in the mindsets of opposition supporters now I cannot see it changing and as I said it does not help when a lot of brighton supporters themselves do not see it is a serious issue

US most people couldn't give a shit , honest
regards
DR

Tim Over Whelmed · Aug 21, 2017

Yes I'll be flamed for this but it has to be said. We, rightly, express concern, anger and are upset by some of the chanting of opposition fans, yet we are constantly banging on about "benefits", "Jimmy Saville", "Leicester's a S***hole", and many other repugnant chats we come up with, even a couple of fans singing about Islam Silami when he came on linked to terrorism (policed by fans and fortunately didn't catch on) and we call that "banter".

Negative chats just fuel hatred, more negative chanting and make us look as bad as the minority morons singing to us, we were no better or worse and we've behaved just as badly at other grounds and at home. It's sick, juvenile and has no place from either sets of fans.

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

Chickenlittle said:
In Australia?...probably no xenophobia or sexism, either eh?
Having visited this country, and spoken with locals, many many times over the past 25yrs (I have family there)...I can only assume you are taking the p!ss

i think if you actually read my post you will see it says " no homophobia at sporting events "...no...?? i don't have to visit or speak to people that live there ....i've lived here for years....are we discussing homophobia here or racism & or sexism....?? or is it all the same to you..??

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Yes I'll be flamed for this but it has to be said. We, rightly, express concern, anger and are upset by some of the chanting of opposition fans, yet we are constantly banging on about "benefits", "Jimmy Saville", "Leicester's a S***hole", and many other repugnant chats we come up with, even a couple of fans singing about Islam Silami when he came on linked to terrorism (policed by fans and fortunately didn't catch on) and we call that "banter".

Negative chats just fuel hatred, more negative chanting and make us look as bad as the minority morons singing to us, we were no better or worse and we've behaved just as badly at other grounds and at home. It's sick, juvenile and has no place from either sets of fans.

oh careful Tim....it's all good fun apart from the gay & race stuff.....

Triggaaar · Aug 21, 2017

cunning fergus said:
All sounds very proportionate on the face of it but the devil will be in the detail as it always is.

I can think some cases will be absolutely clear cut but I have my doubts it will be straightforward on a more practical game by game basis. On a match day vs Palace hoiking dozens of away fans out of the stadium could be more incendiary, the police could be swamped with allegations from BHA fans

But not every fan committing an offense has to be prosecuted. See a hundred fans causing an offense, video them, go and grab one, kick them out and ban them from football. Then go back and see if the chants are continuing and grab another. Repeat. The fans would soon stop. How many really want to lose their season tickets over a chant?

You realise it worked against racism right?

let's face it our shit doesn't stink does it and no BHA fans would ever want to cause trouble.

I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything. I'm not against other clubs here, and I'm not just on the side of gay people from Brighton, I'm on the side of all gay people, and against all homophobia.

Post match we are to expect the Police to use time and money to employ lip readers to review footage and work out who sat where and said what

No, we're not expecting a huge effort to be made to catch every single instance of homophobia. And I don't imagine it's police money either - as I said, the clubs pay for the policing right? And if a club has not controlled its fans, that club will be fined, and that can pay for any extra time required to kick the fans out.

The clubs issue bans, these are then disputed by some, legal precedents will be set and blah blah blah.

Legal precedents? If a club bans a fan, that club is highly unlikely to be taken to court by the fan, and the fan would probably lose if it did happen.

You're just trying to dream up reasons why nothing can be done.

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