[Albion] Are Hughton’s tactics too negative?

Weststander · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
Cant believe we had a poll for this, everyone knows they are except the man who can make the change.

Norwich, Newcastle, a bit fat TOLD YOU SO.

Everyone, or a minority who think we have a squad able to take most PL teams on in an open match?

Other than sticking with March over Izquierdo, I believe CH has taken the right approach with a quasi-Championship level best 11. When we opened up against Liverpool and Chelsea, we were thrashed.

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Weststander said:
Everyone, or a minority who think we have a squad able to take most PL teams on in an open match?

Other than sticking with March over Izquierdo, I believe CH has taken the right approach with a quasi-Championship level best 11. When we opened up against Liverpool and Chelsea, we were thrashed.

I get where you are coming from and yes at best "top 3 bottom 5" championship/premier. The 3-5-2 worked we attacked more in our first 10 games than we have our last. Wednesday night personified how scared the manager is of losing, a 2nd goal was there, if there was 100% belief and no worry I honestly believe we would have got that elusive 2nd.

We didn't play any different against Chelsea, same team same formation same tactics, they were very good and Hazard ran the show, against Liverpool he tweaked it, our biggest downfall that day was that we didn't finish the perfect opportunities that came our way, and we did have some, and our once dependable defence went walk about every time they attacked.

I said it in another thread, Moyes knows already what team and formation we will play, CH does not have a clue what WHU will be doing.

Therein lies our problem. IMHO.

Triggaaar · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
Cant believe we had a poll for this, everyone knows they are except the man who can make the change.

So you haven't read the thread then? Because plenty of people don't think so.

Norwich, Newcastle, a bit fat TOLD YOU SO.

And look how great they've been without him.

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 2, 2018

erkan said:
I like this analysis but you shouldn't exaggerate.

I don't think the sudden emergence of of a host of Brian Clough / Bob Paisley hybrids on NSC means they think we should be pushing for Europe with this squad.

A more realistic ambition for our first season in the PL is simply to be comfortably out of the relegation battle. Perhaps just above Everton.

If only Houghton could take the shackles off our lads...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

In our first half season in the premier league we should be sitting comfortably, above Everton, Southampton, Stoke, West Brom, West Ham, all established premier league teams? THAT's a realistic ambition? Blimey.

I was simply pointing out that if we'd got all these points everyone is demanding, we'd be 7th. Which actually, considering these points have been dropped because of stupid penalties given away, a couple of pinball equalisers in the box, actually shows that we are doing pretty well in this division.

The Gem said:
I get where you are coming from and yes at best "top 3 bottom 5" championship/premier. The 3-5-2 worked we attacked more in our first 10 games than we have our last. Wednesday night personified how scared the manager is of losing, a 2nd goal was there, if there was 100% belief and no worry I honestly believe we would have got that elusive 2nd.

We didn't play any different against Chelsea, same team same formation same tactics, they were very good and Hazard ran the show, against Liverpool he tweaked it, our biggest downfall that day was that we didn't finish the perfect opportunities that came our way, and we did have some, and our once dependable defence went walk about every time they attacked.

I said it in another thread, Moyes knows already what team and formation we will play, CH does not have a clue what WHU will be doing.

Therein lies our problem. IMHO.

The 3-5-2 did not work, we were thrashed. Who cares if you have a few attacks when you've shipped two goals in the first five minutes? Twice this season we've tweaked our tactics for big 6, twice we've been beaten by four. When was the last time we got hammered by four in a home game?

Yes Moyes know what we will do, and we should keep doing it because we do it well. Thats our strength, every player knows what they are doing, where they go, its a well-oiled machine, this is CH's strength as a manager. Take that away and relegation is assured. This idea that we should change our tactics all of a sudden is really flawed, it means that two teams go into a match, one with tactics they know and one with a completely new set of tactics, and one's that aren't suited for the squad. My money will always be on the former. There's a reason Palace lost their first 7 games this season, they were given a whole new set of tactics and it didn't work.

Triggaaar · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
The 3-5-2 worked we attacked more in our first 10 games than we have our last.

Which 10 games did we play 3-5-2, the first 10 in the PL?

seagulls4ever · Feb 2, 2018

Triggaaar said:
And look how great they've been without him.

To be fair, Newcastle finished 5th the following season under Alan Pardew, and then were a solid mid-table team, until Mike Ashley decided to employ Steve McClaren!

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Triggaaar said:
And look how great they've been without him.

It was a tad tongue in cheek, I wonder if we will follow their path too

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
In our first half season in the premier league we should be sitting comfortably, above Everton, Southampton, Stoke, West Brom, West Ham, all established premier league teams? THAT's a realistic ambition? Blimey.

I was simply pointing out that if we'd got all these points everyone is demanding, we'd be 7th. Which actually, considering these points have been dropped because of stupid penalties given away, a couple of pinball equalisers in the box, actually shows that we are doing pretty well in this division.

The 3-5-2 did not work, we were thrashed. Who cares if you have a few attacks when you've shipped two goals in the first five minutes? Twice this season we've tweaked our tactics for big 6, twice we've been beaten by four. When was the last time we got hammered by four in a home game?

Yes Moyes know what we will do, and we should keep doing it because we do it well. Thats our strength, every player knows what they are doing, where they go, its a well-oiled machine, this is CH's strength as a manager. Take that away and relegation is assured. This idea that we should change our tactics all of a sudden is really flawed, it means that two teams go into a match, one with tactics they know and one with a completely new set of tactics, and one's that aren't suited for the squad. My money will always be on the former. There's a reason Palace lost their first 7 games this season, they were given a whole new set of tactics and it didn't work.

The highlighted area, current form would tend to disagree with you, sitting back defending when the best for of defence is attack.

Hamilton · Feb 2, 2018

Mellotron said:
I am INCREDIBLY mild Yes. Only slight. Away draws are fine if followed up with a home win. There is no excuse whatsoever not to go for West Ham on Saturday.

Similarly, I'm an incredibly mild No. I think we can't go into this season all guns blazing (like we ever have) as we'd have nil points. However, there are times when we have to be more attack minded - even during periods in games - and this Saturday is one of those times.

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Which 10 games did we play 3-5-2, the first 10 in the PL?

There should have been full stop after worked, as they are 2 sentences sorry for that.

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
In our first half season in the premier league we should be sitting comfortably, above Everton, Southampton, Stoke, West Brom, West Ham, all established premier league teams? THAT's a realistic ambition? Blimey.

I was simply pointing out that if we'd got all these points everyone is demanding, we'd be 7th. Which actually, considering these points have been dropped because of stupid penalties given away, a couple of pinball equalisers in the box, actually shows that we are doing pretty well in this division.

The 3-5-2 did not work, we were thrashed. Who cares if you have a few attacks when you've shipped two goals in the first five minutes? Twice this season we've tweaked our tactics for big 6, twice we've been beaten by four. When was the last time we got hammered by four in a home game?

Yes Moyes know what we will do, and we should keep doing it because we do it well. Thats our strength, every player knows what they are doing, where they go, its a well-oiled machine, this is CH's strength as a manager. Take that away and relegation is assured. This idea that we should change our tactics all of a sudden is really flawed, it means that two teams go into a match, one with tactics they know and one with a completely new set of tactics, and one's that aren't suited for the squad. My money will always be on the former. There's a reason Palace lost their first 7 games this season, they were given a whole new set of tactics and it didn't work.

Highlighted again sorry, Roy has given them a new set of tactics too.

daveinprague · Feb 2, 2018

Think he is more pragmatic than negative. Survive this season, then ....

Triggaaar · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
There should have been full stop after worked, as they are 2 sentences sorry for that.

Ok, got it. Given that we were stuffed, you can't really say that 3-5-2 worked. I also wouldn't rule it out on the basis on one game where Chelsea started on fire and everything worked for them.

WilburySeagull · Feb 2, 2018

Some keep saying 352 did not work. Of course it didn't because we tried it against the wrong opposition. We should use it (and only when it has been trained in) against terms like West Ham who don't have world class defenders not against the likes of Chelsea who have Hazard. No one is suggesting a gung ho attack at all costs approach just more belief in our own ability to attack. In any case the total defense approach is not working anymore. I like CH but we need to pay more attention to our own positives and worry less about the dangers of the opposition when they are part of the relegation party

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

WilburySeagull said:
Some keep saying 352 did not work. Of course it didn't because we tried it against the wrong opposition. We should use it (and only when it has been trained in) against terms like West Ham who don't have world class defenders not against the likes of Chelsea who have Hazard. No one is suggesting a gung ho attack at all costs approach just more belief in our own ability to attack. In any case the total defense approach is not working anymore. I like CH but we need to pay more attention to our own positives and worry less about the dangers of the opposition when they are part of the relegation party

This all day long.

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
Highlighted again sorry, Roy has given them a new set of tactics too.

Gone back to their old tactics

Bold Seagull · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
Highlighted again sorry, Roy has given them a new set of tactics too.

They've got a strong squad that never should have been in that position. More a sense of turning the dressing room attitude and team spirit around rather than purely tactical.

The irony of someone else mentioning Moyes, he's actually made West Ham more defensive, taking over from Bilic's more attacking play, and they've been much more successful - no one really mentioning that though.

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Ok, got it. Given that we were stuffed, you can't really say that 3-5-2 worked. I also wouldn't rule it out on the basis on one game where Chelsea started on fire and everything worked for them.

Though it went well when we had the chance to use it, although I would say the Manager used it against the wrong opposition, IMO he should have been fine tuning it in training, behind the scenes ready to unleash it against the p!ss poor Southampton.

On another issue I did question why the Manager decided to use it against the Champions when it was not fine tuned. Error of judgement for me.

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 2, 2018

The Gem said:
The highlighted area, current form would tend to disagree with you, sitting back defending when the best for of defence is attack.

The last two years and our competent start to the premier league agrees with me. We reached the playoffs then got promoted, scoring loads of goals, all playing this tactic. We just need better players, and if you want different tactics, then get a new manager. Lets see how that works out for you.

Best form of defence is attack, silly cliche, I don't agree with it

The Gem · Feb 2, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
Gone back to their old tactics

Roy and BFS do not have the same tactics.

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