Vegas Seagull
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Autism - A personal rant.
- Thread starter BadFish
- Start date
Monkey Man
Your support is not that great
I have personal knowledge of incidents where a lack of understanding of asperger's among hospital staff, teachers and social workers has seen kids taken away from their parents. In one case I know extremely well a family was ripped apart, partly on the evidence given by a teacher who was asked if he thought a child in a custody battle had asperger's and replied that he "didn't like to apply those kind of labels".
This was magnified and distorted in the family court and the kids involved haven't been allowed to live in their family home for five years. The case wasn't entirely built on the teacher's words but they have been repeated so many times in reports and in court that we know they played a massive role in what happened. The teacher had no training in recognising asperger's and it's the same in hospitals and social services - very often the condition is confused with signs of parental abuse.
It's such a common condition that it seems incredible that people working with kids typically have so little understanding of how it affects children.
This was magnified and distorted in the family court and the kids involved haven't been allowed to live in their family home for five years. The case wasn't entirely built on the teacher's words but they have been repeated so many times in reports and in court that we know they played a massive role in what happened. The teacher had no training in recognising asperger's and it's the same in hospitals and social services - very often the condition is confused with signs of parental abuse.
It's such a common condition that it seems incredible that people working with kids typically have so little understanding of how it affects children.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks for the replies gents, it is good to hear others experiences. I must say that the school on the whole is very good and I have run a lot of training sessions there as I work there too. Just a few teachers do not or will not get it which is frustrating. Hopefully things will improve next year again.
We have already moved schools as the last one would do what was necessary and last year was excellent.
This year has had a few positives too but these flare ups really get to me because they are so avoidable.
We have already moved schools as the last one would do what was necessary and last year was excellent.
This year has had a few positives too but these flare ups really get to me because they are so avoidable.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #25
A quick update in the interests of sharing the positives as well as the negatives (and being a proud dad and showing off a bit I will admit it).
My boy just came in the top 2% in Australia in a maths competition. Very proud of him for doing this as he didn't really want to.
That brain of his is really amazing.
My boy just came in the top 2% in Australia in a maths competition. Very proud of him for doing this as he didn't really want to.
That brain of his is really amazing.
Crispy Ambulance
Well-known member
That's superb! Well done to your lad and don't blame you for being such a proud dad! Good on him!
I work in the university sector, and we have the occasional student with dyspraxia and the occasional 'high functional' autism. Also we have the occasional student with mental health issues (different issue, but I'll lump this in for reasons that will become clear). The way we deal with this is not great. First, with exam scripts we are told to note 'learning difficulties'. This is quite useful, but frankly it can be hard to determine whether any jumbled text is due to problems with expression or problems with understanding (the latter would have to merit a reduction in marks). More diffilult are mental health issues. We are told the student has them but not what they are. We have a postgrad working with us now in this situation, and its problematic. He is a bit disinhibited, meaning he has said things that have require my having to have 'a word' after complaints. But I don't really know how to deal with it since I don't know what the problem is. I could ask him, but he doesn't know necessarily that we have been told of an issue. The college won't say for reasons of confidentiality. In fact I know about it nly because this was the reason I was given when his BSc finals were deferred. All in all it's not ideal. Where I work my colleagues are smart and we muddle through, but there is huge scope for problems. Anyway... great that your boy has found a bit of success 
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Oh great stuff - well done to your son!
My son came out with a very interesting little nugget of information earlier this week - my wife was talking to him about the book Born on a Blue Day by Daniel Tammet and she happened to mention that this chap see days as different colours and our son says that he sees the same thing. Thursdays are blue and Fridays are orange apparently! Quite how this effects his perception of each day we have yet to find out, but it is fascinating when he comes out with stuff like this that we non-autistic people really find difficult to understand.
My son came out with a very interesting little nugget of information earlier this week - my wife was talking to him about the book Born on a Blue Day by Daniel Tammet and she happened to mention that this chap see days as different colours and our son says that he sees the same thing. Thursdays are blue and Fridays are orange apparently! Quite how this effects his perception of each day we have yet to find out, but it is fascinating when he comes out with stuff like this that we non-autistic people really find difficult to understand.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #29
I work in the university sector, and we have the occasional student with dyspraxia and the occasional 'high functional' autism. Also we have the occasional student with mental health issues (different issue, but I'll lump this in for reasons that will become clear). The way we deal with this is not great. First, with exam scripts we are told to note 'learning difficulties'. This is quite useful, but frankly it can be hard to determine whether any jumbled text is due to problems with expression or problems with understanding (the latter would have to merit a reduction in marks). More diffilult are mental health issues. We are told the student has them but not what they are. We have a postgrad working with us now in this situation, and its problematic. He is a bit disinhibited, meaning he has said things that have require my having to have 'a word' after complaints. But I don't really know how to deal with it since I don't know what the problem is. I could ask him, but he doesn't know necessarily that we have been told of an issue. The college won't say for reasons of confidentiality. In fact I know about it nly because this was the reason I was given when his BSc finals were deferred. All in all it's not ideal. Where I work my colleagues are smart and we muddle through, but there is huge scope for problems. Anyway... great that your boy has found a bit of success
Thanks mate. My boy is 10 and during our diagnosis we have often discussed the confidentiality theme. Many people have talked about their child being labelled and the negatives that come with that. The way i see it is that they are going to be labelled anyway because of their behaviours and difficulties. The way my boy often presents himself is a a rude and naughty child, so i would prefer he is labelled as autistic or Aspergers.
I was told by one of the teachers on this particular excursion that because he had been rude to another parent the teacher had to be seen to speak to my wife (even though it was not the best thing to do in the circumstances). He said that he didn't know if he could tell the lady in question about my sons condition this was particularly galling as i have made it clear during several meetings and training sessions that I am fine with people knowing. Someone mentioned wrist band in this thread which i have suggested to the school.
I think the confidentiality thing is indicative of the way society views these types of conditions. If we acknowledged that people are different and need to be treated a little differently and found a way to be okay with that then perhaps those that need to would become a little more understanding and compelled to find out a little more about it.
The upshot is that he nor we have nothing to be ashamed of and I think that if people know what they are dealing with then more are likely to give him a little wriggle room and perhaps the assistance he needs.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,635
And this is the problem. As an ex classroom teacher and pastoral care tutor over 30 years, I have seen many changes, one of which is the reference to the many conditions that children now have. I am not for one moment doubting the sincerity of those who have spoken from the heart on this thread, or indeed doubting that autism exists, but the pressures on teachers to provide specialist treatment and tuition,(which many here understandably expect for their child) on top of the needs of 29 others, can be overwhelming. And there is always the suspicion that the condition might be used as an excuse - I am NOT defending teachers who are negligent, or who could not care less, but sometimes the situation is not black and white. Children will sometimes pick up on the fact they can have special consideration, and there is pressure on the teacher from the other kids to treat everyone equally, even if staff know it is largely unrealistic.
I still vividly recall an incident in the 1990s, when the issue of ADHD was in its infancy, and there was much scepticism, when the parents of a terribly disruptive 16 year old boy jumped on his diagnosis to demand all sorts of extra provision, which the school attempted to provide, to the extent of ferrying him home away from others, because of his behaviour on public transport. When asked to provide a reference for him to join the Army, I told parents that in all honesty I could not put my name to such a request due to the risks involved -if he cannot travel on a bus without putting others in danger, then he surely cannot be trusted with a machine gun, or worse. It was amazing how normal his parents then maintained he was, and that alongside other applicants, he should be treated exactly the same.
IT is easy to blame teachers, and for all I know, you may be quite justified, but the situation must also be seen from the school's viewpoint. There are many conditions, all of which need specialist treatment -you may have the autistic child, but there may be others in the class with conditions, of which you are unaware, all of which puts pressure on staff.
I think you're absolutely spot on. As time passes, ideas about what one might call 'disability' are changing. However, it will take a little while before society has quite worked out how to untangle what I might call useful disclosure on the one hand, versus confidentiality and privacy on the other. The answer I suspect is that disclosure should be a matter for the person (or the parents if the person in question is a kid) and management thereof should be done properly with staff training. I think its the latter that is done worst right now. Hopefully it will change.
Here is one for you. A mate of mine, in his late 60s, developed Parkinson's. So he needs to take L-DOPA to keep his body under control. The problem is L-DOPA speeds up the neurodegeneration that is the basis of the condition. But my mate is a pharmacologist, and he finds the whole thing quite facinating. So he take a pill in the morning, then lets it wear off during the day. Consequently his gestures become more flamboyant during the day. If he's out to dinner, his solution is to say 'I have Parkinson's and I don't take my pills after midday because I want to preserve my brain cells. You may find some of my wild arm swings disturbing'. It certainly breaks the ice
Vivre la difference!
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #32
I think the fact that you are prepared to use someones Autistic child to have a pop at them on a football message board speaks volumes about the validity of your thoughts on the matter. Especially after 30 years of pastoral care
Last edited:
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #33
I think you're absolutely spot on. As time passes, ideas about what one might call 'disability' are changing. However, it will take a little while before society has quite worked out how to untangle what I might call useful disclosure on the one hand, versus confidentiality and privacy on the other. The answer I suspect is that disclosure should be a matter for the person (or the parents if the person in question is a kid) and management thereof should be done properly with staff training. I think its the latter that is done worst right now. Hopefully it will change.
Here is one for you. A mate of mine, in his late 60s, developed Parkinson's. So he needs to take L-DOPA to keep his body under control. The problem is L-DOPA speeds up the neurodegeneration that is the basis of the condition. But my mate is a pharmacologist, and he finds the whole thing quite facinating. So he take a pill in the morning, then lets it wear off during the day. Consequently his gestures become more flamboyant during the day. If he's out to dinner, his solution is to say 'I have Parkinson's and I don't take my pills after midday because I want to preserve my brain cells. You may find some of my wild arm swings disturbing'. It certainly breaks the ice
Vivre la difference!
Viva le difference indeed.
The way i see it we can hardly expect people to develop and understanding of peoples differences. We need to give people the confidence to be who they are and give society the opportunity to learn about different conditions and how to deal with them.
I have found as a teacher that if i can adapt my class to each of the students to the extent to which they need, it becomes an easier time for everybody. Most of the things i have put in place for Autistic, ADHD students or even just quirky or out there are beneficial for the others too. A good example of this is fiddle toys so students can redirect the need to movement to concentrate. I have found that many many kids like to fiddle with something in order to improve their concentration.
Once you start noticing behaviour and trying out different strategies you start to notice that Aspergers kids are not as out there as you think (or they feel). We can celebrate our quirks and the things that make us interesting and begin to make people feel better about the foibles that sets them apart from others. This to me is preferable to us having to conform to the dull grey sludge of societal norms
chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,589
I think the fact that you are prepared to use someones Autistic child to have a pop at them on a football message board speaks volumes about the validity of your thoughts on the matter. Especially after 30 years of pastoral care
You have my sympathy as far as your kid is concerned, but think you have been a bit unfair there. I thought Hastings Gull was merely putting a bit of balance to the discussion from the school/teacher perspective.
Simon Morgan
New member
I trained as a teacher last year and am mortified to hear that your boy's teachers reacted to his autism in that way. They really should not be able to get away with it. All the best to you and your boy.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,635
I think the fact that you are prepared to use someones Autistic child to have a pop at them on a football message board speaks volumes about the validity of your thoughts on the matter. Especially after 30 years of pastoral care
The usual arrogant rubbish from you, when I was actually trying to steer an even keel. Why are you talking about me using a football message board -you started it on a football message board! No one forced you to start the thread on a football message board, so you should hardly complain about others views on a football message board. And as for having a pop -were you not doing precisely that with your complaints about teachers, who have no chance to answer. After 30 years of pastoral care, I am quite entitled to voice an opinion on the matter, and have far greater experience than you, and I know that the issue is not simple. You are an outraged parent, and see things from that inevitably though understandably narrow perspective - I gave you an alternative thought from the school's standpoint.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,635
And you are teaching?
I think the fact that you are prepared to use someones Autistic child to have a pop at them on a football message board speaks volumes about the validity of your thoughts on the matter. Especially after 30 years of pastoral care
To be fair to Hastings, I think the problem here is the lack of support and guidance for those on the front line.
I was asked to write a UCAS reference for a student, who had just got a PhD and wanted to study medicine. This guy is incredibly smart, but has dyslexia and dyspraxia, and has issues over boundaries (effing off in front of undergraduates, for example). His PhD supervisor refused to write a reference. I agreed to do so and the lad got an interview. Unfortunately he blew the interview. I think he would make a good doctor (medic) but he doesn't fit the stereotype. Maybe the boy who caused disruption on the bus would be fine with a gun. Frankly it is not for me to judge because I don't have the skill set. Yet I was asked to judge in the case of the student applying for med school. None of this is 'obvious' but I am hopeful we are making strides, and that people will get a fair crack, and not be dismissed because of aspectes of themselves that may be disconcerting. Consider, Winston Churchill would have not got a look in ten years ago, in any position of responsibility, had his depression been disclosed. These days that would be discriminatory. And in the past it would have been kept hidden. We have progress, but it is difficult.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #40
As i pointed out, in my opinion your stand point on this matter is marred by your decision a couple of months ago to use my son's autism to have a pop at me on a thread entirely unrelated. you were told at the time that you were out of line by other posters and yet chose to continue trying to justify your actions instead of apologizing. As I, and others have pointed out your pointed out your points are valid in the context of this thread and i am not trying to stop you expressing them. Personally though, having experienced your willingness to use his autism in the way you did i am skeptical about your ability to offer the balance you profess to.
I really shouldn't have bought it up again and for that i apologise, as ever we will not agree so i will do the next best thing and agree to disagree and leave it at that.